# Tsunami’s 300,000 dead versus 9/11’s 3,000 dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2004, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231 "2004-12-30T09:02:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/61 "2004-12-31T18:49:14Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Hmm. Maybe because “elsewhere” isn’t part of the U.S.? In fact, it’s even less self-centered than that. It’s because 90% of all tsunamis occur in the Pacific Ocean. The Indian Ocean countries decided that scarce resources could be better spent other ways. And given devastation that cyclones have and can inflict in that area, they may have been correct, the current tragedy notwithstanding. Note that there is not a tsunami warning system for the Atlantic coast of the United States (or elsewhere, though there is a proposed one for the Caribbean). Though I’m sure that **Wake up call** has an explanation for that. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/62 "2004-12-31T19:10:17Z")
Good point **Manhattan.** The E. coast of Thailand had tsunami warning stuff in place. But they never thought Phuket and the West would be hit, so they didn’t put any sensors there. And, you’re right: New York and Miami would have precisely as much protection from the much-talked-about [Cumbre Vieja-induced](http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/nwave.htm) tsunami as did any of the Indian Ocean countries. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/63 "2004-12-31T20:17:22Z")
I must offer my praise for the Bush’s latest pledge, as well as the leadership shown by the US in this matter. An incredibly generous contribution, an example to other countries, and world leadership of the _right kind_ - inclusive. I just watched Powell and Annan standing together to spearhead the relief efforts. I am genuinely impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/64 "2004-12-31T20:34:21Z")
And interestingly . . . the U.S. has upped its contribution tenfold, just as the projected death toll has risen by about the same ratio from the figures I initially saw (ca. 15k dead as of last Sunday). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/65 "2004-12-31T20:38:00Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I must offer my praise for the Bush’s latest pledge Sorry, this was a typo. I originally typed “the Bush government’s” and forgot to delete the “the”. No insult implied (this time around). ---
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/66 "2004-12-31T21:02:00Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > There is no way to compare the two situations. Why is this in GD? First of all, there has been some improvement since I posted the OP. Bush just committed $350 million. I would have been less hasty to make the OP, had Bush been quicker in making his announcement today. Second, I was not the only one comparing the two situations. As you can see [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/31/international/worldspecial4/31cnd-diplo.html?hp&ex=1104555600&en=adcdde04bc3c920e&ei=5094&partner=homepage), Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont has also said that the United States could draw [for tsunami aid] on some of the $16 billion that had been authorized for Iraq reconstruction but not yet spent. Third, I still maintain we could do more in prevention of suffering prior to such natural disasters (see my last post above). That’s why this is in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/67 "2004-12-31T21:07:54Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Okay, **Wake up call** , take a deep breath. > > The function of the government of the United States is to serve the people of the United States. Doesn’t it make sense that the government would provide more money for relief when something happens to its own citizens inside its own borders? But wait. “Token relief of a few million dollars,” you said? You haven’t been doing your reading, have you? > > Not only is the cash amount higher than “a few million dollars,” but the U.S. is spending a few dollars by sending thousands of government employees (including an entire freaking aircraft carrier) to go over there and help. Did you count the operating costs of those aircraft? The salaries of those people? > > And “no one gives a shit”? Please. Give _yourself_ a wake-up call. Immense amounts of money are flowing into relief efforts. But when I want to give money to help victims of a tragedy like this, I don’t send it to the U.S. government, and I don’t think too many other people do, either! If you’re going to make a ridiculous, unverifiable, pittable statement like that, why not look at the _total_ amount of relief flowing out of this country, through private donations and hundreds of individual charitable organizations? > > The OP didn’t belong in “Great Debates.” It belonged in “Unfounded, Poorly Researched Inflamatory Statements.” The problem with that libertarian viewpoint that the US government should only support US citizens is that the vast majority of americans do not agree with it. [http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/BFW/finding3.html](http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/BFW/finding3.html) "A very large majority supports US efforts to alleviate hunger in other countries. In the current survey, an overwhelming 87% favored the US “giving food and medical assistance to people in needy countries.” That is 87% of people who serve in the military, 87% of voters, 87% of taxpayers, 87% of people who serve in political office, etc. Even the president is lucky to have a 60% approval rate and supporting things like humanitarian aid has an 87% support rate here. Not only that but things like this are good for our reputation. Indonesia is the largest muslim democracy on earth, and if people get the impression that we do not care at all about this situation while countries like Sweden and the UK donate close to a hundred million each what do you think that will do for our reputation as a power hungry, mercurial power? Our reputation is very important to things like other people’s motivation to hate us, join our enemies, or become our allies. $350 million to have an effect on our international standing and save hundreds of thousands of lives is a small price to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/68 "2004-12-31T21:32:45Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > "A very large majority supports US efforts to alleviate hunger in other countries. In the current survey, an overwhelming 87% favored the US “giving food and medical assistance to people in needy countries.” There are lots of things that a large number of Americans want to do, but that does not make it “The function of the government of the United States.” If you read all of the material you quoted from, it stated that, “…more than three in five (61%) said the US spends too much on ‘foreign aid.’” I’m not arguing that we shouldn’t spend government money on disaster relief. I think we should. I still don’t believe, however, that it’s “the function of the U.S. government.” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/69 "2004-12-31T21:39:48Z")
> [@Wake up call](#): > > **Scylla**. You and I had our confrontation back in 2001 on this board. You lost and left the forum for a while (about the same time \*\*december \*\* was banned). Ah yes, my ancient enemy! Long have I awaited this confrontation, gnashing my teeth at my previous ignominious defeat. But now I am back, My hour is here, my time is nigh and I will not be denied the vengeance that has filled my mind night and day, consuming me these long three years. _I have no fucking clue who you are. I’m sorry but I don’t think you made much of an impression. It is good to see though… that you’ve been thinking of me._ > [@](#): > > Then you came back and just participated in BBQ forum only. I see that you are now back again in GD forum and your nature of personal insults have not changed during the past 3 years. Oh contraire! I have been training. My Kung Fu is strong. > [@](#): > > Back to the OP: Ha! I see you run back to your Op after challenging me! Stand and fight. Face my tiger style debate! > [@](#): > > One way of “giving a shit” is to care enough, before such disasters hit, by providing the 3rd world countries with means of [mitigating natural disasters death and destruction](http://www.unescap.org/enrd/water_mineral/disaster/geopaper.htm#part5). > > While we set up a [Tsunami Warning System](http://www.geophys.washington.edu/tsunami/general/warning/warning.html) to help protect the western coasts of the US and Hawaii, one wonders why we haven’t done so elsewhere? > > After all, we have dozens (if not hundreds) of [US military bases](http://books.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/cpc_5101_ps_6662390_gs_16271095.html) everywhere in the world. In addition, the US budget for Foreign Military Sales exceeds $10 billion per year. > > I am not trying to mix apples and oranges. But, in terms of the essence of OP’s message, don’t we have our priorities mixed up when it comes to “helping” the countries affected with preventive measures? No. We don’t. Your warning system is not a preventative measure. Are you seriously opining that we should be creating warning systems all over the entire world so that we can everybody of every possible disaster that might occur? I have bad news for you. Bad things happen sometimes. As soon as your tsunami warning system is in place and you feel safe, some other part of the world will have a landslide that wipes out an entire city, or a drought, or a plague of locusts, or an asteroid. At that point in time you can show up and admonish us as selfish and having our priorities skewed because we have failed to put locust detection systems all over the world to protect everybody from locust plagues. Your argument is inherently, and obviously fallacious. The tsunami is nobody’s fault. It is not our fault for not detecting it. If somebody had detected it chances are that almost as many people would have died, and certainly the damage would have been equivalent. The sucker was moving at 500 miles an hour. Again, it sickens me that you would attempt to blame somebody for this disaster. “Why didn’t you try to prevent it? Where was the preventative money? Why are you spending all that money on Iraq when you could have been making tsunami protection?” It’s truly contemptible, but all too common. I doubt I’ll remember you next time either. Happy new Year. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/70 "2004-12-31T22:12:27Z")
> [@Wake up call](#): > > First of all, there has been some improvement since I posted the OP. Bush just committed $350 million. I would have been less hasty to make the OP, had Bush been quicker in making his announcement today. I have to confess that I don’t understand this comment. Secretary Powell said earlier this week that “the United States will be a major contributor to this international effort. And, yes, it will run into the billions of dollars.” Were you unaware of this, or did you think it didn’t portend a large increase coming, or what? > [@](#): > > Third, I still maintain we could do more in prevention of suffering prior to such natural disasters (see my last post above). That’s why this is in GD. But following my post, do you understand why there wasn’t a prevention (actually detection of course) plan in place in this instance? That it’s precisely the same reason that there’s no tsunami detection plan in place for New York City or Miami? ---
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/71 "2004-12-31T22:57:35Z")
No. We don’t. Your warning system is not a preventative measure. Are you seriously opining that we should be creating warning systems all over the entire world so that we can everybody of every possible disaster that might occur? I have bad news for you. Bad things happen sometimes. As soon as your tsunami warning system is in place and you feel safe, some other part of the world will have a landslide that wipes out an entire city, or a drought, or a plague of locusts, or an asteroid. At that point in time you can show up and admonish us as selfish and having our priorities skewed because we have failed to put locust detection systems all over the world to protect everybody from locust plagues. Your argument is inherently, and obviously fallacious. The tsunami is nobody’s fault. It is not our fault for not detecting it. If somebody had detected it chances are that almost as many people would have died, and certainly the damage would have been equivalent. The sucker was moving at 500 miles an hour. Again, it sickens me that you would attempt to blame somebody for this disaster. “Why didn’t you try to prevent it? Where was the preventative money? Why are you spending all that money on Iraq when you could have been making tsunami protection?” It’s truly contemptible, but all too common. I doubt I’ll remember you next time either. Happy new Year. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/72 "2004-12-31T23:09:37Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > _I have no fucking clue who you are. I’m sorry but I don’t think you made much of an impression._ Let me refresh your memory. At the end of post # 20 [in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=218974&page=1) you said “wake up call: I feel like I know you”. And then after a few exchanges in the same thread, you finally backed up in defeat and said in post # 77 “Consider me creeped out.” That was back in November 2003. You then switched out of GD and basically stuck to BBQ PITS, MPSIMS, Café Society, GQ and IMHO. Just run a search on your own posts since November 2003 till today. It is only recently that you have become active again in GD. > [@Scylla](#): > > Are you seriously opining that we should be creating warning systems all over the entire world so that we can everybody of every possible disaster that might occur? > Your argument is inherently, and obviously fallacious. The tsunami is nobody’s fault. It is not our fault for not detecting it. You and \*\*Manhattan \*\* did not read the link I provided above regarding mitigating natural disasters death and destruction. Please go up a few posts and click on it and read it to its conclusion. Obviously setting up detection systems alone is not the answer. It is all the other actions that needs to be taken to prepare for such unforeseen natural disasters. Again. Please read the link to its conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/73 "2004-12-31T23:20:43Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > The U.S. is the military protector, and humanitarian guarantor, of last resort for many a second-rate country from Canada right on down to Somalia. Wow, geez, tell us how you really feel about the rest of the world… Sheesh. I can’t believe Americans really walk around squacking about how every other country is “second rate”. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/74 "2004-12-31T23:35:46Z")
> [@Wake up call](#): > > You and \*\*Manhattan \*\* did not read the link I provided above regarding mitigating natural disasters death and destruction. Please go up a few posts and click on it and read it to its conclusion. > > Obviously setting up detection systems alone is not the answer. It is all the other actions that needs to be taken to prepare for such unforeseen natural disasters. Again. Please read the link to its conclusion. I read it. Did you? You asked, “While we set up a Tsunami Warning System to help protect the western coasts of the US and Hawaii, one wonders why we haven’t done so elsewhere?” I gave you an answer – because tsunamis were and are considered a low risk in that part of the world and the governments there agreed with that assessment and chose to put natural disaster detection, prevention and mitigation resources into higher-risk areas such as earthquakes, landslides and volcanoes. Your link agrees with that conclusion. It ranks the tsunami risk in Indian Ocean basin countries as “low” and recommends finishing and beefing up the _Pacific_ tsunami detection system while making no mention whatsoever of a similar system for the Indian Ocean. So now one doesn’t wonder why anymore. One knows why. We (and they) haven’t done so for very sound scientific and resource-allocation reasons which unfortunately didn’t pan out this time. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/75 "2004-12-31T23:43:58Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > There are lots of things that a large number of Americans want to do, but that does not make it “The function of the government of the United States.” This is a democracy. A majority support it, and the Constitution doesn’t forbid it, that makes it a legitimate function. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/76 "2004-12-31T23:46:22Z")
> [@Wake up call](#): > > You and \*\*Manhattan \*\* did not read the link I provided above regarding mitigating natural disasters death and destruction. Please go up a few posts and click on it and read it to its conclusion. > > Obviously setting up detection systems alone is not the answer. It is all the other actions that needs to be taken to prepare for such unforeseen natural disasters. Again. Please read the link to its conclusion. Well I read it. And **Manhattan** and **Scylla** both answered you. You seem to be substantially missing the point when you talk of using military bases to detect tsunamis. In fact, it was apparantly already clear that a tsunami would be created from the data already gathered, but there was no means to get this information to people in the affected areas. More detection wouldn’t be any help without some means of putting this information into the hands of local officials and them knowing what actions to take. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/77 "2005-01-01T00:03:36Z")
> [@Wake up call](#): > > Let me refresh your memory. > > At the end of post # 20 [in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=218974&page=1) you said “wake up call: I feel like I know you”. > > And then after a few exchanges in the same thread, you finally backed up in defeat and said in post # 77 “Consider me creeped out.” That was back in November 2003. Ok. I do remember you now. You’re the guy with the creepy fixation, and the delusion that he’s my arch-enemy. > [@](#): > > You then switched out of GD and basically stuck to BBQ PITS, MPSIMS, Café Society, GQ and IMHO. Just run a search on your own posts since November 2003 till today. It is only recently that you have become active again in GD. This is that creepy fixation thing that I was talking about. > [@](#): > > You and \*\*Manhattan \*\* did not read the link I provided above regarding mitigating natural disasters death and destruction. Please go up a few posts and click on it and read it to its conclusion. > > Obviously setting up detection systems alone is not the answer. It is all the other actions that needs to be taken to prepare for such unforeseen natural disasters. Again. Please read the link to its conclusion. No. I didn’t. You miss the point. Do you expect us to put up detection and protection systems for tsunamis across the entire planet? If so, why do you choose tsunamis? What about asteroids, forest fires, locust plagues, earthquakes, volcanos, droughts, typhoons, red tide, the flu, ebola, serial killers, the Jersey Devil, bigfoot, Nazis, Saddam Husein, Al Quaeda, toad rain, the ozone layer, shifting poles, alien invasion, Hurricanes, the Opium trade, defenestration, clitirectomy, and irritable bowel syndrome? Why the sudden fixation on tsunami protection? It seems to me (and this is just me talking,) that having just had this humongous disaster involving tsunamis, the next huge disaster the earth will face will be something besides tsunamis. This particular disaster on this kind of scale isn’t commonplace, you know? You seem to be focussing on safe barn door management after the horse has run away. Not particularly useful. You seem to be suggesting that the US was somehow negligent in not predicting and taking steps to prevent this disaster. Is this in fact your stance? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/78 "2005-01-01T00:06:02Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > What about… the Jersey Devil Hockey strike. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/79 "2005-01-01T00:20:14Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > There are lots of things that a large number of Americans want to do, but that does not make it “The function of the government of the United States.” If you read all of the material you quoted from, it stated that, “…more than three in five (61%) said the US spends too much on ‘foreign aid.’” > > I’m not arguing that we shouldn’t spend government money on disaster relief. I think we should. I still don’t believe, however, that it’s “the function of the U.S. government.” The vast majority of americans don’t know how much we spend on foreign aid. For that post I made I tried to look up a study I read once saying the same thing (90% of americans supported humanitarian aid), and it showed most americans thought we spent 5-7% of GDP on humanitarian aid when we actually spend about 0.15%. Disaster relief is popularly supported in the US and a good way to promote a good reputation which is important in things like tourism and national security. However this is a debate all in itself and I don’t want to take away from the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231/80 "2005-01-01T00:51:00Z")
[Wikipedia on tsunami history.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsunami) > [@](#): > > A wave becomes a shallow-water wave when the ratio between the water depth and its wavelength gets very small. Since a tsunami has a large wavelength, tsunamis act as a shallow-water wave even in deep oceanic water. Shallow-water waves move at a speed that is equal to the square root of the product of the acceleration of gravity (9.8 m/s2) and the water depth. For example, in the Pacific Ocean, where the typical water depth is about 4000 m, a tsunami travels at about 200 m/s (about 712 km/hr or 442 mi/hr) with little energy loss even for far distances, while at a water depth of 40 m, the speed is 20 m/s (about 71 km/hr or 44 mi/hr), much slower, but still very fast to run away from. The underlined is the reason why Pacific Ocean tsunamis are more dangerous. > [@](#): > > History > Although tsunamis occur most frequently in the Pacific Ocean, they are known to occur anywhere. Many ancient descriptions of sudden and catastrophic waves exist, particularly in and around the Mediterranean. Thousands of Portuguese who survived the great 1755 Lisbon earthquake were killed by a tsunami which followed a few minutes later. Before the great wave hit, the harbor waters retreated, revealing lost cargo and forgotten shipwrecks. In the North Atlantic, the Storegga Slide is a major incident. Most frequent in the Pacific. Some of the most notable that Wiki mentioned: 26 August 1883 - Krakatoa explosive eruption (affected both Indian and Pacific Oceans) 22 May 1960 - Chilean tsunami (Pacific) 27 March 1964 - Good Friday tsunami (Pacific) 26 Dec 2004 - Indian Ocean tsunami (Indian) Other notables: The 1755 Lisbon earthquake, along with the resulting tsunami and fires, led to near total destruction of the Portuguese capital. (Atlantic) One of the worst tsunami disasters engulfed whole villages along Sanriku, Japan, in 1896. A wave more than seven stories tall (about 20 m) drowned some 26,000 people. (Pacific) 1946: An earthquake in the Aleutian Islands sent a tsunami to Hawaii, killing 159 people (only five died in Alaska). (Pacific) 1958: A very localized tsunami in Lituya Bay, Alaska was the highest ever recorded: more than 500 m (1500 ft) above sea level. It did not extend much beyond the outlet of the fjord in which it occurred, but did kill two people in a fishing vessel. (Pacific, but this was actually very localized to one harbor). 1976: August 16 (midnight) a tsunami killed more than 5000 people in the Moro Gulf region (Cotabato city) of the Philippines. (Pacific) 1983: 104 people in western Japan were killed by a tsunami spawned from a nearby earthquake. (Pacific) July 17, 1998: A Papua New Guinea tsunami killed roughly 3,000 people. A 7.1 magnitude earthquake 15 miles offshore was followed within 10 minutes by a tsunami about 12 m tall. The villages of Arop and Warapu were destroyed. (Pacific) And since the Pacific has greater frequency of tsunamis instead of the Indian Ocean, this little Wiki blurb pretty much sums it up… > [@](#): > > Unlike the Pacific Ocean, there is no organised alert service covering the Indian Ocean. This is in part due to the absence of major tsunami events since 1883 and an emphasis on developing a tropical cyclone warning system. Final score: Pacific - 8 (I won’t count the Lituya Bay, Alaska tsunami since it was very localized.) Indian - 2 Atlantic - 1 Of course, there are other tsunamis that took place in ancient times in the Mediterranean and Atlantic, but the most recent (when the [Pacific Tsunami Warning Center](http://www.prh.noaa.gov/pr/ptwc/) was established in 1949) are primarily in the Pacific. It’s not because we don’t give a damn about the countries surrounding the Indian Ocean. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-s-300-000-dead-versus-9-11-s-3-000-dead/282231.md?page=5)