# Tsunami victims deserved it, you say? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145 "2004-12-29T20:35:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/21 "2004-12-29T22:21:39Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I think, once again, we need to discriminate between true Christians such as **Polycarp** and the fundies, such as Chick and Phelps, who are about as far from Christianity as one can get. Thankies, **ivy**. And for the record, the woman in the OP’s viewpoint makes me feel physically and violently ill. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/22 "2004-12-29T22:23:35Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Ok so what we’re saying is that believing the words of Jesus, who said that he was the ONLY way to God, goes hand in hand with wishing death and destruction on anyone who doesn’t believe it. And that Christians believe every word their pastor says, especially if they’re fundamentalists. Wishing it? Probably not. I’m sure the lady in the OP feels genuinely bad that the inhabitants of SE Asia weren’t Christians so they could have been spared the Wrath of God. But if one of the basic tenents of your faith is divine punishment for not believing properly, it is not very much of a stretch at all to assume that the punishment sometimes starts a little earlier for some folk than for others. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/23 "2004-12-29T22:24:22Z")
> [@Martha](#): > > So, let the pitting commence: > > Well done, religious leaders. No matter how you coat the stuff you say with the smokescreen of tolerance and multi-faith bullshit, this is the message that filters through to most of your followers: we’re right, everyone else is wrong, and it follows that they deserve such so-called retribution. > . > . > . > Now, I realise that some believers are thinking, compassionate people, whose minds do not work this way. However, most people on this earth are impressionable, uninformed and clearly don’t go through much of a thought process when it comes to these things. These beliefs are the result. To those of us who care, we are just as pissed about the “Those heatens deserved it.” crowd as anyone else. I would not consider that type of mindset “Christian” in any regard. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/24 "2004-12-29T22:26:55Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I think, once again, we need to discriminate between true Christians such as **Polycarp** and the fundies, such as Chick and Phelps, who are about as far from Christianity as one can get. I think it’s best to avoid deciding who is and isn’t a “True Christian[sup]TM[/sup]” . Instead, can we just start discriminating between Christians and assholes who happen to be Christian? Or, better yet, can we discriminate between people and people who happen to be assholes? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/25 "2004-12-29T22:27:16Z")
> [@alimarx](#): > > I was waiting for Jerry Fatwell or that other fat fundie bastard Fat Robertson to say something about this tsunami, similar to what they said about 9/11. Heh, I guess they did learn something; or saw a drop in donations. Whoa dude I’m pretty sure Pat Robertson really doesn’t qualify as fat. And saying things like Jerry Fatwell and Fat Robertson is so ridiculously grade schoolish it lowers you to the same intellectual level of the people you are lambasting. Of course it may even be lower, because at least those two are accomplished asshole demagogues who’ve made themselves rich by distorting the bible. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/26 "2004-12-29T22:28:56Z")
Wrinkle nose like you just ate catshit. “And you **worship** that evil motherfucker? What’s **wrong** with you?” Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/27 "2004-12-29T22:30:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But if one of the basic tenents of your faith is divine punishment for not believing properly, it is not very much of a stretch at all to assume that the punishment sometimes starts a little earlier for some folk than for others. That is NOT a basic tenent of Christianity. Some denominations, perhaps, but certainly not the religion as a whole. There are plenty of Christians who don’t believe in divine punishment, and not just the liberal universalists (e.g., the Seventh Day Adventists, one of the more conservative US denominations, don’t believe in hell). ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/28 "2004-12-29T22:32:56Z")
> [@anu-la1979](#): > > Yes, but given how many of the victims are Hindus, Buddhists & Muslims (the majority of whom, obviously, do not subscribe to that worldview) that means that they’re going to hell now aren’t they? The fiery, burning pits of hell? All of them and the Dalai Lama too, once HE dies. That is certainly possible. I know I’m going to the Kingdom of God through Jesus, and that there is no other way. But Jesus can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. As a Christian I obviously believe he’s more than just a man, I believe he was the physical manifestation of God on earth, now I don’t believe it’s impossible that God worked in different ways for different cultures, and perhaps for example Muhammed was another incarnation of Jesus. I won’t explore those theories deeply, but as a Christian I certainly know better than to second guess God or attempt to make such bold claims as to who is going to hell and who isn’t. Only God knows that, and any Christian claiming otherwise is looking for trouble with the almighty as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/29 "2004-12-29T22:34:24Z")
> [@Martha](#): > > I doubt that the pastor or whoever she listens to said explicitly that the tsunami victims deserved to die, although you never know with some of the wackier ones. > > They \*\*do \*\* preach, however, that ‘atheists’ and ‘idol-worshippers’ (read = non-Christians, especially non-members of their church) are wrong, and that their brand of religion is the only truth, and the one and only route to salvation. If you swallow that, it is not such a leap of logic to reach that particular conclusion about those who do not share your beliefs. > > This nonsense is not exclusive to her sect: I’ve heard similar from members of other religions, Christians and non-Christian. [pink floyd reference] Careful With That Brush, Eugene. [/pink floyd reference] ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/30 "2004-12-29T22:35:25Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Thankies, **ivy**. > > And for the record, the woman in the OP’s viewpoint makes me feel physically and violently ill. You need to calm down then and become less emotionally involved with other’s _opinions._ ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/31 "2004-12-29T22:36:09Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Instead, can we just start discriminating between Christians and assholes who happen to be Christian? Or, better yet, can we discriminate between people and people who happen to be assholes? That is a good point and I will take it on board. Nevertheless, religions, or simplistic interpretations of them, are fodder for these assholes. The preachers know what they’re doing: they use simplistic messages to sway the impressionable, who then regurgitate these messages into this sort of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/32 "2004-12-29T22:39:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wishing it? Probably not. I’m sure the lady in the OP feels genuinely bad that the inhabitants of SE Asia weren’t Christians so they could have been spared the Wrath of God. But if one of the basic tenents of your faith is divine punishment for not believing properly, it is not very much of a stretch at all to assume that the punishment sometimes starts a little earlier for some folk than for others. That’s not one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/33 "2004-12-29T22:42:52Z")
> [@Martha](#): > > At this stage, while I didn’t lose it completely, I launched into a rant about people being the same anywhere, no matter what they believed in. Also btw, no, they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/34 "2004-12-29T22:46:00Z")
If the “Kingdom of God” is through Jesus then approx. 90% (I’ll be conservative) of the victims, who happen to subscribe to religions that that don’t believe in Jesus as being a “Personal Saviour” are hell-bound, aren’t they? I can see how the OP came to her conclusion because it’s really not such a leap from Hindus/Buddhists/Muslims being eternally damned to “well, I bet the fact that it was them was showing the heathens what’s what.” In the wake of such a horrific tragedy I guess it’s a…nice sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/35 "2004-12-29T22:47:39Z")
That should be “God showing them what’s what.” ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/36 "2004-12-29T22:50:08Z")
I think it’s human nature to: a) see patterns where none exist, and b) see people in the “other tribe” as not as good as people in “my tribe.” Belonging to an organized religion only provides a framework to justify those positions, whether it’s the religion’s official position or not. My mother was a Christian Scientist (may she rest in peace) - I guess they must see this disaster as punishment for evil. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/37 "2004-12-29T22:50:11Z")
I feel like I should compliment **Martin Hyde** ’s attempt at tolerance, but for some reason I can’t bring myself to. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/38 "2004-12-29T22:55:12Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > That’s not one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith. Quote: Luk 12:46-47 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes That’s from the man himself. There are plenty of others. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/39 "2004-12-29T23:07:39Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > That’s not one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith. Apologies. I didn’t mean to imply that it was. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/40 "2004-12-29T23:07:42Z")
**cher3** , you can’t just cut and paste a biblical passage with the assumption that your interpretation of it is representative of Christian belief in general. The passage you quoted can be interpreted to mean things other then “Unbelievers will always be punished by God.” Aside from the matter of differing interpretations, there are also differing views of what scripture is. Some denominations do view it as the literal truth and the Word of God. The vast majority of Christians view it differently, though. Many Christians accept that the bible was written over a long period of time by human beings in several different cultures, and the contents reflect those personal and cultural biases. A corollary to this would be that some parts are just flat-out wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145.md?page=3)