# Tsunami victims deserved it, you say? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145 "2004-12-29T20:35:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/41 "2004-12-29T23:28:39Z")
It’s statements like that, that make me wish a great tidal wave or earthquake would open-up and swallow one of these little Bible-belt towns where I would wager opinions like that are not terribly uncommon. Yes, some innocent good Christian types and those of other (or non) faiths would suffer as well, but, you know… it would be a small price to pay for God to express his disatisfaction with these people putting words in his mouth and attributing their intolerance and ignorant opinions to Him. Of course, as an atheist and a humanist, I could never in good conscience wish that sort of tragedy on _anyone_, regardless of their faith or lack thereof. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/42 "2004-12-29T23:30:53Z")
I think it is a pretty fundamental tenet of Christianity that the path to eternal life is through belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Whether you get hell or oblivion or something in between if you don’t believe may be somewhat up for grabs, but Jesus was pretty darn clear on the believing part and so is every major Christian denomination. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/43 "2004-12-29T23:48:59Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > I think it is a pretty fundamental tenet of Christianity that the path to eternal life is through belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. And for the Muslims is something else, and for the Jews it’s something else, and for the Hindus and Buddhists it’s something else. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet. My favorite analogy on religion is this: Several old men were sitting around a stove arguing religion. They finally stopped and asked the shopkeeper which was the best way to believe in God. The shopkeeper said, "When you take your cotton to be ginned, you can go several ways. You can take the train, you can take the river downstream, or you can take the path through the west side of the woods. But when you arrive, the gin man doesn’t ask how you got there. He asks, ‘How good’s your cotton?’" ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/44 "2004-12-30T00:00:47Z")
> [@jinwicked](#): > > It’s statements like that, that make me wish a great tidal wave or earthquake would open-up and swallow one of these little Bible-belt towns …Of course, as an atheist and a humanist, I could never in good conscience wish that sort of tragedy on _anyone_, … Well here’s praying you are always good conscience and remain in your faith, otherwise you’d be one sick bastard. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/45 "2004-12-30T00:06:34Z")
> [@jinwicked](#): > > It’s statements like that, that make me wish a great tidal wave or earthquake would open-up and swallow one of these little Bible-belt towns. . . . Actually, God prefers to go after those little towns with tornadoes. God especially hates people in trailer parks. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/46 "2004-12-30T00:08:11Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > but Jesus was pretty darn clear on the believing part and so is every major Christian denomination. Could you provide cites that show the Roman Catholic Church, an Eastern Orthodox church (your choice), and, to pick an abritrary mainstream protestent group, the United Church of Christ believe that belief in Jesus is strictly necessary for salvation? E.g., that _all_ those who don’t or didn’t believe in Jesus are destined to Hell? If every major Christian denomination is “pretty darn clear” on the believing part, it should be easy enough… ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/47 "2004-12-30T00:16:33Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > I think it is a pretty fundamental tenet of Christianity that the path to eternal life is through belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. > > Whether you get hell or oblivion or something in between if you don’t believe may be somewhat up for grabs, but Jesus was pretty darn clear on the believing part and so is every major Christian denomination. Many would agree with your interpretation of that passage, but not all. It’s important to remember Jesus didn’t speak English and didn’t dictate the King James Bible directly to St. Luke. Most versions of the Bible translate the word in question here “apistos,” as “unbeliever,” but another translation (used in the RSV) is “unfaithful.” It can refer to either a lack of faith or a lack of faithfulness. Jesus’ parable is somewhat deeper than just a black and white apportioning of what will happpen to the believers and what will happen to unbelievers; it’s talking about those who faithfully use what is accorded to them in this world and those who unfaithfully squander it. > [@](#): > > Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. On preview: dude! **jinwicked’s** back! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/48 "2004-12-30T00:17:28Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > Actually, God prefers to go after those little towns with tornadoes. God especially hates people in trailer parks. I wonder what Florida did to piss him off, with four hurricanes and a tropical storm this summer. Surely it wasn’t that brouhaha back in November 2000…that would have been quite a delayed reaction, no? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/49 "2004-12-30T00:19:06Z")
Well, for Baptists it’s more like “Those who have the best cotton were naturally smart enough to take the train.” And for Catholics it’s more like “I’ll buy your cotton, but don’t bother to bring it unless you come down the river.” That God only cares about the good works and intentions of people may be your personal belief, but it is not the creed set down by the vast majority of Christian denominations. (Or Jewish or Muslim.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/50 "2004-12-30T00:25:24Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > That God only cares about the good works and intentions of people may be your personal belief, but it is not the creed set down by the vast majority of Christian denominations. (Or Jewish or Muslim.) Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/51 "2004-12-30T00:34:42Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Could you provide cites that show the Roman Catholic Church, an Eastern Orthodox church (your choice), and, to pick an abritrary mainstream protestent group, the United Church of Christ believe that belief in Jesus is strictly necessary for salvation? E.g., that _all_ those who don’t or didn’t believe in Jesus are destined to Hell? > > If every major Christian denomination is “pretty darn clear” on the believing part, it should be easy enough… Catholic: [http://www.saint-mike.org/apologetics/qa/Answers/Defending\_Faith/p0406070046.html](http://www.saint-mike.org/apologetics/qa/Answers/Defending_Faith/p0406070046.html) Baptists and Others: [http://www.baptiststart.com/jesus\_only\_way.htm](http://www.baptiststart.com/jesus_only_way.htm) Eastern Orthodox: [http://www.baptiststart.com/jesus\_only\_way.htm](http://www.baptiststart.com/jesus_only_way.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/52 "2004-12-30T00:34:54Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I think it’s human nature to: > > a) see patterns where none exist, and > > b) see people in the “other tribe” as not as good as people in “my tribe.” The more I think about it, the more I wonder if this isn’t pretty close to the _entirety_ of human nature. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/53 "2004-12-30T00:37:46Z")
Sorry, that last one should be: [http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7063.asp](http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7063.asp) I have to confess that I’m surprised at some of the questions on this issue. John 3:16 and all, you know? ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/54 "2004-12-30T00:44:05Z")
Oh, and United Church of Christ [http://www.ucc.org/faith/plan.htm](http://www.ucc.org/faith/plan.htm) Somehow I don’t think your choice of them is entirely arbitrary, though. I’ll be away for a few days, but I’ll check back in if this thread is still around on Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/55 "2004-12-30T00:47:34Z")
This thread tells me all I need to know about how evil religion is. WHY in the 21st fucking century do so many people still base their whole fucking lives around religion and petty squabbles over whose centuries-old selection of myths and half-remembered folk tales is better? The human race is so fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/56 "2004-12-30T00:48:22Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > And for Catholics it’s more like “I’ll buy your cotton, but don’t bother to bring it unless you come down the river.” This Catholic grows his own and shares it. You needs to get out more. [Aid Groups for Tsunami Victims](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/tsunami.aidsites/index.html) A few Christian-based aid-groups are listed there as well…probably to go to the affected sites and damn (or pull a Nelson Muntz) all the heathens in person… :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Gen 18: > 26 The LORD said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.” > > ``` > 27 Then Abraham spoke up again: "Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city because of five people?" > > ``` > > “If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.” > > ``` > 29 Once again he spoke to him, "What if only forty are found there?" > > ``` > > He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.” > > ``` > 30 Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?" > > ``` > > He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.” > > ``` > 31 Abraham said, "Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?" > > ``` > > He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.” > > ``` > 32 Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?" > > ``` > > He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.” I can quote the bible too. How it’s interpretated is a whole nuther ball of wax. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/57 "2004-12-30T00:54:13Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > This thread tells me all I need to know about how evil religion is. WHY in the 21st fucking century do so many people still base their whole fucking lives around religion and petty squabbles over whose centuries-old selection of myths and half-remembered folk tales is better? > > The human race is so fucking stupid. What a frail notion. ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/58 "2004-12-30T00:58:57Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > [pink floyd reference] > > Careful With That Brush, Eugene. > > [/pink floyd reference] or even Careful With That Axe, Martha. Indulge me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/59 "2004-12-30T01:06:07Z")
At the same time, you can bet that Lutheran Social Services and the Catholic Charities will be giving aid to victims, as they have done so all over the world for years. I just want to show “the other side,” that there are Christians who are motivated by a desire to do What Jesus Would Do. It’s true that they could do that without faith, but perhaps the faith motivates them to do more. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/60 "2004-12-30T01:06:08Z")
As **Yeticus Rex** posted, there are many Christian charities on the list of those offering aid to the tsunami victims. And I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that when I to church on Sunday the victims will be mentioned during the Prayers of the People. They may very well have a fund drive in place too. Not all Christians are complete ass wipes like the woman mentioned in the OP. But people like that woman in the OP make me wonder if the fundamentalists have a point when they dispute evolution. Some people really are no different from pond scum. (Except for the fact that pond scum can’t _talk_ and spread its viciousness around…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145.md?page=4)