# Tsunami victims deserved it, you say? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145 "2004-12-29T20:35:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/81 "2004-12-30T06:09:16Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > That is not what he said. You added a very important qualifier that drastically changed his message. D’oh :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/82 "2004-12-30T12:01:05Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > Sorry, that last one should be: > > [Page Cannot Be Found - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America](http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7063.asp) > I have to confess that I’m surprised at some of the questions on this issue. > > John 3:16 and all, you know? I’ll see your John 3:16 and raise you 1. John 3:17: “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.” Note the use of the word “all”. I had other cites, but people have beaten me to them. By the way, the issue of universal salvation has been debated since the birth of Christianity itself, and it’s still contentious. You could use John 3:16 to 21 alone to play Dueling Bible Verses with this. Thank you, **ivylass** for pointing out the hurricanes which hit Florida this year. From what I gather in the news up north, Christianity is very strong and vocal in Florida, yet the state got hit with four hurricanes. Meanwhile, the heathenish, secular, gay-marriage approving folks of New England – that _is_ a joke! – got nothing. Oh, and by the way, there’s already a note about a special collection for tsunami relief on my Episcopal church’s website. In other words, we’re in, too. I wonder if the woman who said those things has any idea how _hurtful_ such things are. I know non-Christians, people who have left Christianity for honest reasons, including, in some cases, the actions of some Christians. Does she honestly think telling them they deserve whatever troubles they have will help them? No. I think it’s more a case of whistling in the dark, a way of saying “I’ll never have to worry about someone I love being injured or killed by [insert disaster of choice] because they and I are good Christians and God wouldn’t do that to us.” Hopefully she never has to ask, “God, how could You do this to me?!” CJ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/83 "2004-12-30T12:16:57Z")
It is unfortunate when Jesus is made into a little god in a box, and the little god in a box is the only way to big-G God. That is not what Jesus meant when He said “I am the way… no one comes to the Father except through me”. Human bodies are electromagnetic fields. They are differentiated from other electromagnetic fields by virtue of being unable to occupy the same place at the same time. Church politicians have appropriate the EM field from Nazareth as their little god in a box. They are snake charmers who call the little god out of the box whenever they need to hypnotize the hapless souls they seek to devour. Our Lord teaches that God is not a respecter of person. It is not the case that Jesus is some particular god who is better than other gods, and that you must choose him over the others. You can and should reject the snake that crawls out of that box. It’s from hell, and so is its charmer. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/84 "2004-12-30T12:40:43Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I wonder what Florida did to piss him off, with four hurricanes and a tropical storm this summer. Surely it wasn’t that brouhaha back in November 2000…that would have been quite a delayed reaction, no? 😃 Meh. Four years is _nothin’_ when you’re the King of Eternity 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/85 "2004-12-30T12:51:05Z")
I initially thought this thread was about Phelps. I went looking for his response, of course, and I wasn’t disappointed. May I now add [Freddie-boy’s contribution to the relief work](http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html) here? > [@](#): > > **Thank God for Tsunami and 2,000 dead Swedes** > > How many tsunami-dead Swedes are fags & dykes? vacationing on their fat expendable incomes without kids to bother with and spend money on. With respect to each of these earthquake-dead perverts: “He shall be buried with the burial of an ass.” Jer. 22:19. Maybe Sweden can pass another law - making it a crime for God to send earthquakes and tidal waves to kill vacationing Swedish fags & dykes. I don’t believe in a mystical heaven or hell, but I truly hope that the anger he feels every day at the homosexual state of the world eats into his soul and psyche to the point of burning mental anguish agony. Would it be remiss of me to wish that he live many more years, and that every day for him be hell on earth? ---
**Author:** ![35340](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/8baadc/32.png) [@35340](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/35340)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/86 "2004-12-30T13:27:00Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > I seem to recall Jesus telling a story about two sons who were asked by their father to do some work around the farm. One said, “Sure, I’m on it” but then did nothing. The other refused, but then went and did the work anyway. > > Of course, it is the latter who did his father’s will. > > Many who say “Lord, Lord” will be told “I don’t know you.” While others who never said the name of the Lord will be welcomed. Cite, please? I don’t remember that parable from 13 years of religious schooling … ---
**Author:** ![HelenTroy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helentroy/32/86_2.png) [@HelenTroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenTroy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/87 "2004-12-30T13:42:38Z")
What bothers me about this whole issue is what I read in a local newspaper article this Sunday. The story was about local missionaries who go to this area of the world to do charity work. I don’t remember the exact quote, but to paraphrase a representative of the group, “There are some areas we normally would not have access to to teach our religious beliefs, but if we go saying we are here to help we can get in these areas.” It seems underhanded and deceitful. I am sure they are doing wonderful things, but to phrase it in a way that sounds like they are only doing it as covering to convert made me squeamish. This was only the impression the representative gave me, of course, but it wasn’t a good one. Shouldn’t the emphasis be on the work, and not who you can get to buy into your dogma? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/88 "2004-12-30T13:49:52Z")
> [@Mynn](#): > > Cite, please? I don’t remember that parable from 13 years of religious schooling … Part of **Sample the Dog** ’s post comes from Mt. 7:21, “Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” The parable he cites is found later in Matthew, ch. 21, v. 28-31: > [@](#): > > , 28 “What do you think? A man had two sons; he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ 29 He answered, ‘I will not’; but later he changed his mind and went. 30 The father went to the second and said the same; and he answered, ‘I go, sir’; but he did not go. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you. ---
**Author:** ![HelenTroy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helentroy/32/86_2.png) [@HelenTroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenTroy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/89 "2004-12-30T13:52:50Z")
"Kerlin said a medical team can gain access to areas that are off-limits to the ministry. Then the medical team paves the way for the ministry. " [Here is the story.](http://www.pennlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1103451611158720.xml?pennnews) OK, she sounds like she is doing wonderful things, but the ulterior motive just bothers me. I’m probably too sensative on these issues. Some of my relatives love to describe the hell which awaits me one day and I just think someone who is in dire medical need may not need to hear that message at that time. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/90 "2004-12-30T13:53:31Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > I wonder if the woman who said those things has any idea how _hurtful_ such things are. I know non-Christians, people who have left Christianity for honest reasons, including, in some cases, the actions of some Christians. Does she honestly think telling them they deserve whatever troubles they have will help them? No. I think it’s more a case of whistling in the dark, a way of saying “I’ll never have to worry about someone I love being injured or killed by [insert disaster of choice] because they and I are good Christians and God wouldn’t do that to us.” Hopefully she never has to ask, “God, how could You do this to me?!” > > CJ Bingo! I thin k you’ve nailed a big part of why such people say such things. As a secular example, when Christopher Reeve was crippled in that riding accident, another boarder at my barn was going on and on about how it was his own fault, he’d been riding a horse that was too much for him, he was riding recklessly, he wasn’t capable of handling the course he was on, and so forth. She was upset and impassioned through the whole discussion, far more than I’d expect of her. Thinking it over, I came to the conclusion that it was her way of distancing herself from feeling threatened by the very real risk that all horsepeople take whenever they ride, drive in harness, or even do groundwork with horses. If it was Reeve’s incompetence that got him into trouble, and if she stayed within her own (quite high) level of competence, then such a terribly bad thing wouldn’t happen to her. ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/91 "2004-12-30T14:38:33Z")
> [@HelenTroy](#): > > What bothers me about this whole issue is what I read in a local newspaper article this Sunday. The story was about local missionaries who go to this area of the world to do charity work. I don’t remember the exact quote, but to paraphrase a representative of the group, “There are some areas we normally would not have access to to teach our religious beliefs, but if we go saying we are here to help we can get in these areas.” It seems underhanded and deceitful. I am sure they are doing wonderful things, but to phrase it in a way that sounds like they are only doing it as covering to convert made me squeamish. This was only the impression the representative gave me, of course, but it wasn’t a good one. Shouldn’t the emphasis be on the work, and not who you can get to buy into your dogma? That’s why I would hesitate to support a charity with a religious affiliation, unless they clearly stated they were working ‘with people of all faiths and none’. I still find myself feeling uncomfortable with religious charities, even though I know from first-hand experience they do excellent work and don’t go out to convert the heathen. UK development organisations Christian Aid and CAFOD, for example. Funnily enough, I once worked for an organisation called Catholic Institute for International Relations. They also fall into that category, although some of the local counterpart organisations had strong church links. Back to the question of my conversation in the OP, I came out of it angry but not so much with the woman, but with the environment that makes that sort of sentiment acceptable. My acquaintance had probably had similar conversations with other people, and was just going through the motions with me. She is a person with limited education, and has clearly not been taught to think for herself or to question much. I know that she is a decent person in many other ways who probably has not been exposed to enough information or diverse viewpoints to come to a more informed, compassionate humanist conclusion about the way the world works. You could say I hate the sin but not the sinner. 😉 Most poor Latin Americans have been kept in ignorance for centuries by the conservative Catholic authorities and a series of dictatorial and corrupt governments in whose interest it is to have uneducated, impressionable populations. Education is severely underfunded and people are not taught to think for themselves or to challenge the status quo. How else are those in power going to get people to vote for their governments and blindly accept the watered down dogma that their religions teach them? The appearance on the scene of the evangelical sects is a more recent phenomenon. They prey on these same impressionable, poor people, and in some ways are even worse than the Catholics in that they preach a message in which people are told to accept their miserable lot, i.e. poverty, inequality and oppression in this life, in return for the rewards of the afterlife. How this connects to the idea that their god is also capable of smiting the sinners in this life, is beyond me, but there you are. What enrages me is that it is socially acceptable to think this way in less-educated circles, the cast majority of the population. At least some strains of Catholicism are more progressive and oriented towards social development and empowerment for the poor. > [@Siege](#): > > I wonder if the woman who said those things has any idea how hurtful such things are. I know non-Christians, people who have left Christianity for honest reasons, including, in some cases, the actions of some Christians. Does she honestly think telling them they deserve whatever troubles they have will help them? No. I think it’s more a case of whistling in the dark, a way of saying “I’ll never have to worry about someone I love being injured or killed by [insert disaster of choice] because they and I are good Christians and God wouldn’t do that to us.” Hopefully she never has to ask, “God, how could You do this to me?!” Yep. I also told her I was personally offended by what she said, but stopped short of revealing my atheism, seeing as for her it is practically equivalent to saying you eat babies. She concluded that I was a member of a different faith - which I am, ethnically anyway - and appeared to realise that what she said was tactless at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/92 "2004-12-30T15:00:38Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Bingo! I thin k you’ve nailed a big part of why such people say such things. As a secular example, when Christopher Reeve was crippled in that riding accident, another boarder at my barn was going on and on about how it was his own fault, he’d been riding a horse that was too much for him, he was riding recklessly, he wasn’t capable of handling the course he was on, and so forth. She was upset and impassioned through the whole discussion, far more than I’d expect of her. > > Thinking it over, I came to the conclusion that it was her way of distancing herself from feeling threatened by the very real risk that all horsepeople take whenever they ride, drive in harness, or even do groundwork with horses. If it was Reeve’s incompetence that got him into trouble, and if she stayed within her own (quite high) level of competence, then such a terribly bad thing wouldn’t happen to her. There’s a term in social psychology for this that I can’t immediately recall. The example I remember from undergrad were outlandish rumors in the surrounding community and a outpouring of hostility from the American public in general toward the slain students after the Kent State killings: that the dead students were dope addicts, they were heavily armed communists and actively engaging in the protests, that they were so riddled with lice and syphillis that they would have been dead within a few weeks anyway, and that they stank so badly that ambulance attendants gagged when loading up their corpses. Dehumanizing the victim makes psychologically unpleasant or painful truths about your government or the world in general easier to deny. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/93 "2004-12-30T15:51:22Z")
Well, I think only a very small percentage of people take Fred Phelps seriously. He’s a troll, only he does it on his own website and through “press releases.” I can’t imagine living with that much hatred and anger. It must be very wearing. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/94 "2004-12-30T16:08:58Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > I’ll see your John 3:16 and raise you 1. John 3:17: “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.” Note the use of the word “all”. Er… the word “all” doesn’t appear in what you quoted. Or am I being whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/95 "2004-12-30T16:47:24Z")
It doesn’t. My mistake. The version I use at home has the word “all”, I think (I’m at work on my lunch break); the King James Version, which I quoted from Bible [Gateway.com](http://Gateway.com) apparently omits it. I’ll double check this when I get home. My apologies. CJ ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/96 "2004-12-30T17:13:28Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Well, I think only a very small percentage of people take Fred Phelps seriously. He’s a troll, only he does it on his own website and through “press releases.” > > I can’t imagine living with that much hatred and anger. It must be very wearing. For 99% of the population, it would be very wearing, but true trolls thrive on it. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/97 "2004-12-30T17:17:46Z")
Is there anything these hate filled cunts can say to turn their followers against them? Some of the statements quoted in this thread are disgusting. They call themselves Christians and think and act like cunts. Human beings need our help. What could be more Christian than helping them? Jesus would be turning in his grave(if he had a grave that is 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/98 "2004-12-30T17:24:48Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Bingo! I thin k you’ve nailed a big part of why such people say such things. As a secular example, when Christopher Reeve was crippled in that riding accident, another boarder at my barn was going on and on about how it was his own fault, he’d been riding a horse that was too much for him, he was riding recklessly, he wasn’t capable of handling the course he was on, and so forth. She was upset and impassioned through the whole discussion, far more than I’d expect of her. > > Thinking it over, I came to the conclusion that it was her way of distancing herself from feeling threatened by the very real risk that all horsepeople take whenever they ride, drive in harness, or even do groundwork with horses. If it was Reeve’s incompetence that got him into trouble, and if she stayed within her own (quite high) level of competence, then such a terribly bad thing wouldn’t happen to her. That crossed my mind, and I was unable to enunciate it well. I catch myself doing that same thing occasionally - subconsciously figuring how I’m different (and therefore safe). One time I really caught myself doing it was when a little girl was kidnapped a few years ago, and it became part of the media story that the parents were _swingers!_ It took me a minute to register a “what the hell!?” and realize that had no relevance, and that my sense of security over my kids being safe was false. One of the ways religions are most dangerous is when they justify these feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/99 "2004-12-30T17:27:35Z")
The word “all” does not appear in the Greek but that would be redundant since the word _kosmos_ (translated as “world”) means “universe” or “all that exists” by definition anyway. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145/100 "2004-12-30T18:15:27Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Total bullshit. > > Any other doctrinal statements you’d like to make as Official Representative of the Vast Fundamentalist Conspiracy? Really? So all those fundamentalists who’ve tried to “save” me and my family over the years, what were they? The person I was chatting at at a Christian board one time (a fucking fundamentalist Baptist, of course) was kidding when, not knowing my church, she said “Isn’t it sad the way Catholics think they’re Christians?” Fundamentalists don’t include folks like Jimmy Swaggart? Jack T. Chick? Bob Jones? Tell me another one. Really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsunami-victims-deserved-it-you-say/282145.md?page=6)