# Tu or Vous? Which to use and when **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786 "2004-12-08T18:53:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/1 "2004-12-08T18:53:34Z")
To Francophone dopes (I’m sure there are a couple of you out there) I wanted to know when it was proper to use the pronoun Tu or Vous when referting to a person. I had heard that Vous was more formal, or at least poliet, but from my lessons years agou I was taught Vous was used as a You plural. Please help. merci beaucoup. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/2 "2004-12-08T18:56:39Z")
Yeagggh :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: that is francophone dopers… I thought that was preview I clicked on. Francophone dopes may answer as well, but I’d prefer francophone dopers. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/3 "2004-12-08T18:58:18Z")
It’s both. Vous is always used for the plural and is used as a more formal/polite singular. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/4 "2004-12-08T19:01:29Z")
IANAF(ranciphone). Vous is formal (or plural, depnding on context) Tu is informal Use Tu for children, very close friends, some family members such as sisters or brothers, or cousins of your age range. Use Vous for your elders, your parents (unless it’s not that sort of family), your boss, or when you just meet a person. Ditto for store clerks, librarians or people who are helping you in a professional sort of way. If you’re introduced to a new person, around your age, in a freindly situation, and they “Tu” you, you should “Tu” them back. It would be considered rude to “Vous” them - almost like you’re correcting their grammer, or suggesting that you’re of a higher social standing than they are. There are other nuances that I’m not toally familiar with. Fortunately, my spoken French is so appalling, I don’t think most listeners will notice a tu vs. a vous. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/5 "2004-12-08T19:02:06Z")
Ok so in conversation when speaking to a stranger it would be preferable to use vous? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/6 "2004-12-08T19:02:58Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > Ok so in conversation when speaking to a stranger it would be preferable to use vous? Yeppers, unless it’s a small child. Even then you could, but it’s a bit like addressing a young boy as “Master Roberts” or somesuch. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/7 "2004-12-08T19:05:02Z")
Sorry to add to that. I sometimes call into Montreal for business, and want to ask if the person on the other end speaks English in French. I have used “Tu parles Anglais”, but I’m thinking I should ask “Vous parlez Anglais”. Or is there a less clunky polite way to ask without them thinking I’m bilingual which I am far from… ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/8 "2004-12-08T19:13:32Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > Sorry to add to that. I sometimes call into Montreal for business, and want to ask if the person on the other end speaks English in French. I have used “Tu parles Anglais”, but I’m thinking I should ask “Vous parlez Anglais”. Or is there a less clunky polite way to ask without them thinking I’m bilingual which I am far from… OMG, it’s been a long time since HS french, but shouldn’t this be “Parles-tu Anglais?” and “Parlez-vous Anglais?” ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/9 "2004-12-08T19:16:21Z")
Non-Francophone, but familiar with Romance-language usages: Vous is always technically correct, but sometimes far too formal and courteous to be appropriate. It is the plural and the respectful usage, the one you would use in English in approximately those contexts in which you would use Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms plus surname in direct address. If you are on a personal-friend first-name basis, in family, or are addressing a prepubescent child, you use “tu” with them. In addressing a social superior with whom one has an intimate relationship, one will ordinarily “tu” him/her _after being invited to_. E.g., a child speaking to Tante Lorraine will be told by Tante to “tu” her; a valet in private will “tu” his employer; when you are on a hunting party with the Comte du Plessis, the Comte will invite you to “tu” him. Spanish is quite similar, but with an interesting variation: “Usted” is short for “Vuestra Merced” – literally “your mercy” and equivalent to veddy-upper-class British English “your grace.” And it is the equivalent of singular “Vous” but takes the _third-person_ verb, much as “Your grace is most kind” takes “is,” rather than “are” as “you” would. “Tu” is familiar singular, just as in French, but “Vosotros” is familiar plural and “Ustedes” is formal plural, enabling English “you” to have four different translations, depending on context. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/10 "2004-12-08T19:29:58Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > veddy-upper-class British English “your grace.” “Your Grace” is the proper form of address for a Duke or Duchess, but wouldn’t be appropriate for anyone else. I hesitate to point this out, because I’m fairly certain that you know this. However, I felt it should be noted that it’s not simply an “upper class” Britishism, but a form of a address with a very specific meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/11 "2004-12-08T19:37:15Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > “Your Grace” is the proper form of address for a Duke or Duchess, but wouldn’t be appropriate for anyone else. I hesitate to point this out, because I’m fairly certain that you know this. However, I felt it should be noted that it’s not simply an “upper class” Britishism, but a form of a address with a very specific meaning. Nitpick to a nitpick – “Your grace” is also appropriate for addressing archbishops. But top return to the original question. I’ve noted as an non-native speaker that internet chat sites generally use “tu” rather than “vous”. That may be that there are younger people there, and younger people are more likely to move to “tu” very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/12 "2004-12-08T19:40:29Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > “Parlez-vous Anglais?” This is what I was going to say as well. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/13 "2004-12-08T19:48:26Z")
Apologies for swinging this towards Spanish, but it’s bound to occur in any Romance related thread. In some regions of the Spanish speaking world, “Vos” is used fairly exclusively where everyone else uses “tú”. Originally, tú was singular, vos was plural. Then it came to be that vos began to be used in reference to those of higher rank (Namely, the emperor). So, you have: Singular: informal - tú, formal - vos Plural: informal - vos, formal vos This is like the French usage. By the 1500’s, vos had been extended so far it became almost the same in use as tù. This is when the forms that became “usted” and “ustedes” were developed. Experimenting happened, with forms like simply “merced” - grace, or “señoría” - lordship, and also “tu merced” - your mercy. Vuestra merced and vuerstra mercedes were the forms that found favor, and these became usted and ustedes. During the Golden Age and the 18th century, tú and vos were in competition, but were resolved in areas closest in contact with Spain - Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, where they used tú. Those furthest often went with Vos, such as the Rio de la Plata area. Vuestra merced underwent several forms: vuesarced, voacé, vucé, vuced, vested, but finally were reduced to “usted” and “ustedes”. So, in Spain, the system came to be: Singular: informal - tú, formal - usted Plural: informal - vosotros, formal - ustedes However, in Latin America and Western Andalucia, ustedes came to be used in favor of vosotros. Tú and vos still compete with each other. so the system is: Singular: informal - tú/vos, formal - usted Plural: informal - ustedes, formal - ustedes ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/14 "2004-12-08T20:01:17Z")
When I was in France, I encountered a funny piece of etiquette. Raised in a house where manners were a big deal, I used _vous_ almost exclusively. However, upon arriving at my home-stay with Michel (and his son “Qui vous pouvez s’apeller Mike”), he used an unfamiliar verb with me: He said, “Ah, non, vous ne me _vous-vousez_ pas! Vous pouvez me _tu-tuer_!” A rough translation would be “You don’t have to ‘yessir’ me, you can ‘hey-you’ me.” And then he went into a long explanation of how he would not stand for such formality from an honored guest, and that he would also insist on _vous-vous-er_-ing me. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/15 "2004-12-08T20:02:47Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Nitpick to a nitpick – “Your grace” is also appropriate for addressing archbishops. Well, if we’re getting nitpicky, it’s also the proper form of address for the Lord High Commissioner to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/16 "2004-12-08T20:12:10Z")
Originally Posted by Turek “Parlez-vous Anglais?” Originally Posted by Alice\_in-Wonderland “This is what I was going to say as well.” Well that’s the little odd thing. It seems the Quebecois French sometimes is a little different than parisian, as far as I was told by a friend from New Brunswick who was biligual. He said that you would ask “tu parles(vous parlez)” rather than parles tu. I really have to get classes in conversational french. I’m so rusty. ---
**Author:** ![ryanbobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ryanbobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryanbobo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/17 "2004-12-08T20:17:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **kingpengvin** > Sorry to add to that. I sometimes call into Montreal for business, and want to ask if the person on the other end speaks English in French. I have used “Tu parles Anglais”, but I’m thinking I should ask “Vous parlez Anglais”. Or is there a less clunky polite way to ask without them thinking I’m bilingual which I am far from… I wouldn’t say “Tu parles anglais?” (or “Parles-tu anglais?”) to a stranger or business contact unless they’ve used it w/ me first, though I don’t know if French Canadians are as formal as the French. “Parlez-vous anglais?” would be preferred (though you can get away with saying “Vous parlez anglais?” with proper inflection. Kinda like saying “You speak Enghlish?” where your inflection let’s the listener know it’s a question). In French this isn’t clunky at all; it’s the way it’s said. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/18 "2004-12-08T20:26:39Z")
> [@](#): > > A rough translation would be “You don’t have to ‘yessir’ me, you can ‘hey-you’ me.” And then he went into a long explanation of how he would not stand for such formality from an honored guest, and that he would also insist on vous-vous-er-ing me. I don’t understand - he wanted you to “tutoie” him but he was going to “vouvoie” you as an indication of respect and/or because you were an honored guest? > [@](#): > > He said that you would ask “tu parles(vous parlez)” rather than parles tu. It’s technically not correct but is fine colloquially. Also, you wouldn’t ask a stranger “Parles-tu anglais?” or “Tu parles anglais?” because if you know them well enough to tutoie them, you would know if they speak English. Unless perhaps we are talking about two children running into each other. By the way, the A is not capitalized in anglais. ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/19 "2004-12-08T20:28:58Z")
It’s usually better to err on the side of formality and use “vous” – if you have a distinctively Anglophone accent (as I still do ☹ ) I bet a lot of Francophones will cut you some slack, given that you’re not fluent. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786/20 "2004-12-08T20:32:55Z")
My high school French teacher spent a lot of time emphasizing that “formal” in French covered a lot more situations that “formal” in the US. You would never “tu” your mailman, whereas here I might wave and say, “Hey, what’s up, Bob?” Familiarity does not breed contempt … nor relax formality. Mme. Tracy had a wonderful story of a time when she lived in France and took the same walk, every day, at the same time. Every day, she would see the same woman at the same spot. As the weeks went on, they would smile and nod as they passed one another. Finally one day as they passed, Mme. Tracey smiled and said, “Bonjour. Comment t’apples toi?” (“Hello. What is your name?”) She said the woman looked like this: :eek: and was outraged. “Est ce-que je vous connais? Comment vous appelez vous?” She demanded (OK, I probably butchered that. It’s been 15 years.) It meant “Do I KNOW you? What is your name?” in quite imperious tones. She never "tu"ed a “vous” again. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tu-or-vous-which-to-use-and-when/278786.md?page=2)