# TubaDiva, are you kidding me? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [March 24, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672 "2010-03-24T21:18:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/61 "2010-04-02T17:01:55Z")
Any chance of an answer, **TubaDiva**? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/62 "2010-04-03T22:48:07Z")
Bump. I’m going to keep this thread on the front page until **TubaDiva** does her job and actually responds to it. Or closes it, which, given her typical performance, seems more likely. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/63 "2010-04-04T00:26:45Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Bump. > > I’m going to keep this thread on the front page until **TubaDiva** does her job and actually responds to it. > > Or closes it, which, given her typical performance, seems more likely. You’ve got her on the run now… I can only imagine what people are thinking… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/64 "2010-04-04T00:32:20Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > You’ve got her on the run now… Not really the point. I’m not interested in having her “on the run.” In fact, that’s precisely the opposite of what i want. I’d just like a response to fairly straightforward inquiry about a moderating decision, and about a comment she made that appears to contradict the very rules she’s supposed to enforce. > [@raindog](#): > > I can only imagine what people are thinking… Careful with that. You don’t want to overtax yourself. But if you want to continue helping to keep this thread on the front page, i’m happy for the assistance. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/65 "2010-04-04T00:39:23Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Not really the point. I’m not interested in having her “on the run.” In fact, that’s precisely the opposite of what i want. I’d just like a response to fairly straightforward inquiry about a moderating decision, and about a comment she made that appears to contradict the very rules she’s supposed to enforce.Careful with that. You don’t want to overtax yourself. > > But if you want to continue helping to keep this thread on the front page, i’m happy for the assistance. Anything I can do to help, I’m there. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/66 "2010-04-04T01:29:48Z")
Can you repost the questions, for those of us who have forgotten them? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/67 "2010-04-04T02:51:22Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Can you repost the questions, for those of us who have forgotten them? It’s in the first post of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/68 "2010-04-04T03:36:02Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > .. do you even read and understand the rules you’re supposed to be enforcing? This is the supposed question _mhendo_ so desperately wants answered. It’s really more of an insult than an honest question, though, which is probably the reason it is being (justifiably, imho) ignored. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/69 "2010-04-04T03:45:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is the supposed question _mhendo_ so desperately wants answered. It’s really more of an insult than an honest question, though, which is probably the reason it is being (justifiably, imho) ignored. Well, if you can give me another explanation for an Admin advocating a course of action that would be in direct violation of board rules, i’m all ears. But you just keep circling the wagons there, bucko. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/70 "2010-04-04T03:59:54Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, if you can give me another explanation for an Admin advocating a course of action that would be in direct violation of board rules, i’m all ears. > > But you just keep circling the wagons there, bucko. I’ve shown your"simple question" for the insult it really is, I’m going now. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/71 "2010-04-04T04:04:00Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > But you just keep circling the wagons there, bucko. BTW, that “You just keep circling the wagons there, bucko” sthick trotted out every time some _dares_ to defend the people that work on the SDMB is getting a little tiresome. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/72 "2010-04-04T04:25:01Z")
I hope you’re not holding your breath. It’s obvious you’re not going to get an answer. If I were you, I’d a send message to ED. He is a reasonable man. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/73 "2010-04-04T04:40:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > BTW, that “You just keep circling the wagons there, bucko” sthick trotted out every time some _dares_ to defend the people that work on the SDMB is getting a little tiresome. > > Just sayin’. So is the lack of responses regarding complaints about relevant moderator and administrator actions. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/74 "2010-04-04T07:38:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is the supposed question _mhendo_ so desperately wants answered. It’s really more of an insult than an honest question, though, which is probably the reason it is being (justifiably, imho) ignored. Okay, if you think it is an insult, how about this. "[thread=556490]This thread[/thread] was closed because **TubaDiva** thought it had degenerated into people yelling at each other. She asked to take it to the Pit if we wanted to “yell” at each other. However, we were basically disagreeing about the application of the board rules, which by those rules does belong in ATMB. Has the policy changed, and if not, why was the thread closed? “Secondly, can we have a clarification regarding the official reason for **Xploder** ’s banning? **Rico** said he was banned for using “hate speech” and a word that is “banned”, i.e. “cunt”. However the official rules do not say that the word “cunt” itself is banned, only its use to insult another poster. Which is not what **Xploder** was doing (not directly at least). So was **Rico** accurate regarding the reason for his banning?” ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/75 "2010-04-04T18:12:23Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12262646&postcount=77):First, just because people continue to be critical of moderator decisions, doesn’t mean that nothing is being accomplished. There was no yelling; there was disagreement. The fact that you don’t like some of the opinions being aired does not mean they were yelling. > > Second, the courses of action you recommend are, by the rules of the board, literally impossible. > > We can’t start a “reasonable discourse” on this subject in another forum, because the rules specifically state that discussion of moderation and board rules belong only in ATMB. > > And we can’t yell at each other about this subject in The Pit, because threads about moderation and board rules belong only in ATMB, and we’re not allowed to Pit moderators for their moderating decisions. > > I’ll ask you the same question i asked **Rico** in that thread: do you even read and understand the rules you’re supposed to be enforcing? **mhendo** , to answer your OP: 1. In my view, that thread should have been left open. I agree with you that the posts in that thread would be better characterized as disagreement. Moderator decisions are sometimes subjective, and different mods see it differently. 2. **Xploder** was banned for a pattern of behavior, not for any specific post. 3. By repeatedly bumping this thread you are not going to get a response if you didn’t get it in the first place. Doing so only makes someone more unwilling to engage in discussion, and I can certainly understand that. I hope that addresses your concerns. - **xash** Administrator ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/76 "2010-04-04T19:34:42Z")
I’m not **mhendo** , but thanks for your response **xash**. It does answer my questions. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/77 "2010-04-04T19:41:32Z")
> [@xash](#): > > 1. **Xploder** was banned for a pattern of behavior, not for any specific post. This is a silly reason, and an even sillier explanation. He was banned because someone overreacted. Then a rationale about “patterns of behavior” was invented after the fact, despite there being a posted reason of a “hate speech” **post** , which is _utterly_ inane. It’s disingenuous of you to make up reasons after the fact to conceal what was, by all evidence, a mistaken overreaction or even worse, an excuse to satisfy a personal beef. These are the sorts of bogus calls, refusals to reconsider, and obvious scrambles to CYA that get people up in arms. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/78 "2010-04-04T19:49:17Z")
> [@xash](#): > > **mhendo** , to answer your OP: > > 1. In my view, that thread should have been left open. I agree with you that the posts in that thread would be better characterized as disagreement. Moderator decisions are sometimes subjective, and different mods see it differently. Thankyou for your input. While i recognize a certain subjectivity in the job of moderating, it seems to me, as a general observation, that this subjectivity has a certain pattern, whereby particular mods consistently and (in my view) capriciously look for any excuse to close a thread that is critical of moderator decisions, or of board policy. This isn’t the first time that the mod in question has closed a thread with some half-assed excuse about it going “off topic” or not “accomplishing anything useful.” It seems, for some moderators, that “useful” is a synonym for “things i agree with.” Also, it seems to me that there is little or no problem of subjectivity regarding the latter part of my inquiry, in which i asked how, under the rules of the board, we might follow the instructions given by **TubaDiva** in her post, to wit: (a) have a dispute about moderator decisions in the Pit, and (b) open a reasonable discussion of moderator decisions somewhere other than ATMB. As i noted in the OP, Pitting moderators for their work as mods is no longer allowed, and the rules explicitly state that complaints about moderation or board policy must be opened in ATMB. So both of **TubaDiva** ’s admonitions are in conflict with the very rules she is supposed to be enforcing. This, in combination with her self-centered and subjective closing of the thread in question, leads me to question not only her judgment, but her motivations. > [@xash](#): > > 1. **Xploder** was banned for a pattern of behavior, not for any specific post. Well, for me, the whole **Xploder** issue was irrelevant to this thread, although i will note that, whenever a long-term member gets banned, we usually get an explanatory thread in ATMB listing infractions and making clear why the decision to ban has been made. In **Xploder** ’s case, we never got any such thread, or any such explanation, even though this was someone who had been a member of this board for 10 years. All we had to go on was **Rico** ’s little hissy fit, which gave no impression whatsoever that the banning was the result of a “pattern of behavior.” Moreover, when called on it, his excuse was that “cunt” is hate speech, and that the post, which i and others saw as a silly joke, constituted “poking with a sharp stick.” I guess it’s possible that only a very sharp stick would be able to penetrate reasoning as dull as that demonstrated in that thread by **Rico**. > [@xash](#): > > 1. By repeatedly bumping this thread you are not going to get a response if you didn’t get it in the first place. Doing so only makes someone more unwilling to engage in discussion, and I can certainly understand that. The fact that i didn’t get a response in the first place shows what a mockery this forum has become. Mods and admins can simply ignore stuff they don’t feel like responding to, even if it is directly pertinent to their duties, and there’s nothing we can do about it. If this “fingers in the ears, lala i can’t hear you” approach is going to continue, then the least you could do revisit the ban on Pitting mods. If some mods haven’t got the integrity and sense of fairness required to respond to criticisms of their actions, the least you could do is let us blow off steam about them. > [@xash](#): > > I hope that addresses your concerns. > > - **xash** > Administrator Sort of. But not really. All it shows is that some mods and admins have enough of a sense of professionalism that they end up cleaning up after the ones who don’t. Thankyou for being in the former group, but it doesn’t change the behavior of the latter. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/79 "2010-04-04T21:04:37Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > “Secondly, can we have a clarification regarding the official reason for **Xploder** ’s banning? **Rico** said he was banned for using “hate speech” and a word that is “banned”, i.e. “cunt”. However the official rules do not say that the word “cunt” itself is banned, only its use to insult another poster. Which is not what **Xploder** was doing (not directly at least). So was **Rico** accurate regarding the reason for his banning?” > [@xash](#): > > **mhendo** > > 1. **Xploder** was banned for a pattern of behavior, not for any specific post. > - **xash** > Administrator > [@ivn1188](#): > > This is a silly reason, and an even sillier explanation. He was banned because someone overreacted. Then a rationale about “patterns of behavior” was invented after the fact, despite there being a posted reason of a “hate speech” **post** , which is _utterly_ inane. It’s disingenuous of you to make up reasons after the fact to conceal what was, by all evidence, a mistaken overreaction or even worse, an excuse to satisfy a personal beef. > > These are the sorts of bogus calls, refusals to reconsider, and obvious scrambles to CYA that get people up in arms. > [@mhendo](#): > > Well, for me, the whole **Xploder** issue was irrelevant to this thread, although i will note that, whenever a long-term member gets banned, we usually get an explanatory thread in ATMB listing infractions and making clear why the decision to ban has been made. > > In **Xploder** ’s case, we never got any such thread, or any such explanation, even though this was someone who had been a member of this board for 10 years. All we had to go on was **Rico** ’s little hissy fit, which gave no impression whatsoever that the banning was the result of a “pattern of behavior.” Moreover, when called on it, his excuse was that “cunt” is hate speech, and that the post, which i and others saw as a silly joke, constituted “poking with a sharp stick.” I’ll try to give a better explanation of why **Xploder** was banned. This is, of course, just one mods opinion/view of the situation, but I was definitely very involved the last few months. 2005–warned by moderators **Giraffe** and **tveblen** for accusing Spiritus Mundi of being a sock of Lib. 2006–Warned by **tubadiva** for “calling” someone stupid outside the Pit. 7-25-2009–Warned by Marley23 for linking to confrontational content on the snarkboards. **Fenris** , bless his heart, had posted that links were not allowed but discussion of such was. 7-31-09—Warned by **SkipMagic** for a personal insult in ATMB. 1-11-2010–I suspended him for 30 days for acting like a jerk. [Xploder suspended - About This Message Board - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=547453) 3-24-2010–Rico banned him for, IMHO, doing the same kind of thing I suspended him for only a few months earlier. His excuse was usually that he was drunk. Fine. I’ve had my share of times when I shouldn’t have posted here, having consumed too much. But, when you do it repeatedly, you only get so many chances. His time just ran out. He was a pretty good poster, nice guy, but you have to have some limits. **samclem** ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/80 "2010-04-04T22:13:16Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > He was a pretty good poster, nice guy, but you have to have some limits. > > **samclem** Thanks. My problem was not with the banning as such, but with the way it was done. Your explanation here is very reasonable, but it doesn’t change the fact that the banning itself was very poorly handled by **Rico** , and that there was no such explanation forthcoming at the time. This seemed pretty poor form, especially when the Doper in question had been here since 2000. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672.md?page=5)