# TubaDiva, are you kidding me? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [March 24, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672 "2010-03-24T21:18:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/101 "2010-04-07T01:21:24Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Wait. You’re officially warning **roland** because he disagreed over whether or not **mhendo** ’s comment was really an insult or not even though he didn’t actually make the insult himself? Did I misunderstand because if not, that warning is crazy. If I call you an asshole and get a moderator note for it, then later say “but it’s the fucking truth,” I am again calling you an asshole, only this time by proxy. It’s another insult. ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/102 "2010-04-07T01:33:04Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > If I call you an asshole and get a moderator note for it, then later say “but it’s the fucking truth,” I am again calling you an asshole, only this time by proxy. It’s another insult. **mhendo** did not insult her. I stand by that. If he called her a cunt and I agreed with that I wouldn’t have a problem with the warning. And truth be told; So what? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/103 "2010-04-07T01:35:45Z")
> [@rolandgunslinger](#): > > **mhendo** did not insult her. I stand by that. If he called her a cunt and I agreed with that I wouldn’t have a problem with the warning. And truth be told; So what? I think it’s arguable whether or not it was an insult. I’m leaning towards yes. And so what? Well, whether or not insults should be allowed is an argument you can make elsewhere and you might be able to make a good case. But as it stands now, they’re against the rules. If the rules weren’t enforced there’d be some stomping, angry posters in a different thread complaining about how hostile\* the forums are. \*Yes, I realize the forums are plenty hostile as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/104 "2010-04-07T03:21:51Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@mhendo](#): > > > > She won’t be happy until this place is a dull clone of her own mediocrity. > > Personal insults are not permitted in ATMB. Please refrain. > > -xash > Administrator > [@rolandgunslinger](#): > > That’s not an insult. That’s the truth. What the fuck happened to this board? **rolandgunslinger** , you indicated that it was “the truth” that “[TubaDiva] won’t be happy until this place is a dull clone of her own mediocrity,” immediately after **xash** noted that this was an insult, and was not permitted. You effectively repeated the insult, just after being told not to. And I think “dull clone of her own mediocrity” can hardly be construed as anything other than an insult. > [@hajario](#): > > Wait. You’re officially warning **roland** because he disagreed over whether or not **mhendo** ’s comment was really an insult or not even though he didn’t actually make the insult himself? Did I misunderstand because if not, that warning is crazy. I officially warned **rolandgunslinger** for repeating an insult after **xash** issued a reminder to refrain from insults. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/105 "2010-04-07T04:35:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I officially warned **rolandgunslinger** for repeating an insult after **xash** issued a reminder to refrain from insults. I guess I see your point. He should have left off the “it’s the truth” part. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/106 "2010-04-07T04:49:39Z")
> [@](#): > > **Arnold** : > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **mhendo** : > > Why couldn’t TubaDiva tell him to can it, and let the actual conversation continue? > > She could have done that also. But why is it so horrible that a thread is closed when a moderator thinks that it’s degenerating? Especially when she explicitly says “start a new thread without all the yelling if you want to discuss it further?” > > **Arnold** : I have seen more than one thread, again in the past month or so, where the moderator comes in and says “Please refrain from doing X”, and then has to repeat the same thing two or three times because people are still continuing to do X in the thread. > > \ > > …Or you could look at it this way - how many threads has there been criticizing moderators that haven’t been closed - do you count those as a pattern of good decisions? I agree with **Mhendo** that the appropriate response in the original situation would have been to tell anyone who was out of line to can it. For one thing, the term “yelling” is silly under the circumstances. Was anyone posting everything in all caps? That is the only posting equivalent of yelling that I am aware of. If one or two people were name-calling or using personal insults, shouldn’t that have been handled in the usual way? Arnold, you say that you have noticed more than one situation in the last month where a Moderator has said, “Please refrain from doing X,” and then has to say the same thing two or three times. I see that too. Dopers have learned quickly that they can get away with pushing the limits two or three times before they get a warning. And they have learned that it takes seven or eight warnings before they are permanently banned. They were carefully taught this by moderators who lean over backwards to be fair until they themselves are too pissed off to see straight. There was a good reason for not ending that thread. Most of it was being productive. Argument and disagreement is not necessarily a bad thing. Weed out just the ones who are breaking the rules and let us continue with our discussions. Telling us to open a new thread on the same subject _usually_ takes the wind out of our sails and is the biggest hijack of all. Why should a moderator ever put a Doper in the position of reopening a thread on the same subject in the same forum? That is needless. YMMV on the threads that were left open that were critical of the mods. Who wants to read back over those? (luci, put your hand down.) ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/107 "2010-04-07T15:18:31Z")
**Zoe** said: > [@](#): > > Arnold, you say that you have noticed more than one situation in the last month where a Moderator has said, “Please refrain from doing X,” and then has to say the same thing two or three times. I see that too. Dopers have learned quickly that they can get away with pushing the limits two or three times before they get a warning. And they have learned that it takes seven or eight warnings before they are permanently banned. They were carefully taught this by moderators who lean over backwards to be fair until they themselves are too pissed off to see straight. The moderators can’t win. They are simultaneously being accused of being heavy-handed jackbooted thugs looking for any reason to stomp on people _and_ being too lenient and encouraging disruptive behavior by trying to be too even-handed. 😕 Hell, both just happened _in this thread **on the same incident** _. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/108 "2010-04-07T15:50:45Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Telling us to open a new thread on the same subject _usually_ takes the wind out of our sails and is the biggest hijack of all. Why should a moderator ever put a Doper in the position of reopening a thread on the same subject in the same forum? I am trying really hard here, but I can’t find any sympathy in my heart for the hypothetical person who would complain that they really want to continue a discussion from a closed thread, but are stopped by the fact that opening a new thread is an insurmountable burden. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/109 "2010-04-07T16:35:41Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > The moderators can’t win… You say that like it is a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/110 "2010-04-07T18:38:39Z")
Hold it. ATMB is the forum for complaints about admins and mods, but if you say that one is mediocre at her job you get warned for it? How does this make any sense? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/111 "2010-04-07T18:46:43Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Hold it. ATMB is the forum for complaints about admins and mods, but if you say that one is mediocre at her job you get warned for it? How does this make any sense? Please, give me a break. That’s not what was said. You are contending that “She won’t be happy until this place is a dull clone of her own mediocrity” wasn’t intended to be insulting?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/112 "2010-04-07T18:57:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Please, give me a break. You are contending that “She won’t be happy until this place is a dull clone of her own mediocrity” wasn’t intended to be insulting?:dubious: I don’t know if it was or wasn’t, but this whole kerfuffle started, I believe, when **Q.E.D.** called her a cunt in the Pit, which was _perfectly legal_ at the time. That begat the move to ATMB for complaints about the administration, and further begat the language rules in the Pit. Calling her a cunt is so far removed from calling her mediocre as to barely be in the same universe. Why even bother to criticize when the act of criticism itself is outlawed? It’s ridiculous. As ridiculous as claiming that she needn’t answer the OP because of the tone of his questions. Protecting the mods from the kind of insults that were being slung about is a good thing, but the pendulum has swung way too far the other way. Asking a mod in ATMB if she has read the forum rules is about on a par with telling a poster in GQ that she needs to read her cites all the way through. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/113 "2010-04-07T19:36:32Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I don’t know if it was or wasn’t, Again, please give me a break. You seriously don’t know whether or not that remark was intended to be insulting? > [@](#): > > Why even bother to criticize when the act of criticism itself is outlawed? It’s ridiculous. As ridiculous as claiming that she needn’t answer the OP because of the tone of his questions. Why even bother to respond to a poster who makes remarks as ridiculous as “the entire act of criticism is outlawed,” when this entire forum consists largely of criticism of moderator actions? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/114 "2010-04-07T19:44:01Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Again, please give me a break. You seriously don’t know whether or not that remark was intended to be insulting? Well, I guess it depends on your definition of insulting. If it’s an insult, it’s about on the level of “Your mama wears combats boots.” > [@](#): > > Why even bother to respond to a poster who makes remarks as ridiculous as “the entire act of criticism is outlawed,” when this entire forum consists largely of criticism of moderator actions? Show me the poster who said that the entire act of criticism is outlawed. Or is he some hypothetical poster? It’s not an either or situation. The fact that some criticism is allowed does not negate the fact that some isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/115 "2010-04-07T20:24:14Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Show me the poster who said that the entire act of criticism is outlawed. Or is he some hypothetical poster? Look, **Contrapuntal** , I’m not interested in playing games with you. You said “Why even bother to criticize when the act of criticism itself is outlawed?” This is ridiculous hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/116 "2010-04-07T20:34:42Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > I dunno. I mean, mhendo asked a question, and he didn’t get a response. Then he poked it over and over again, and you finally answered. It seems to me that the only way to get an answer for questions like these is to keep poking. Unless you have an alternate suggestion…? Hello? Anyone? I’d still like an answer to this question from a mod or admin. Preferably xash. (Since he’s who I was responding to in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/117 "2010-04-07T21:50:56Z")
**Contrapuntal** said: > [@](#): > > Well, I guess it depends on your definition of insulting. If it’s an insult, it’s about on the level of “Your mama wears combats boots.” Which is also not allowed in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/118 "2010-04-07T22:59:46Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Hello? Anyone? I’d still like an answer to this question from a mod or admin. Well, I’m not a moderator, so feel free to ignore my post, but I think that you can improve your odds of having a question answered if you phrase it in a civil fashion. With all due respect to mhendo, who has a store of knowledge that I have often benefitted from at the SDMB, (and I hope he will continue to grace the board with his contributions), the way the question in the OP was phrased might make some people disinclined to answer it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/119 "2010-04-07T23:05:57Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I am trying really hard here, but I can’t find any sympathy in my heart for the hypothetical person who would complain that they really want to continue a discussion from a closed thread, but are stopped by the fact that opening a new thread is an insurmountable burden. and > [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > …the way the question in the OP was phrased might make some people disinclined to answer it. To modify your own phrasing, i can’t find much sympathy in my heart for a moderator or administrator who would refuse to do her job simply because the post calling her judgment into question was not sufficiently respectful. My OP didn’t break any rules, it contained no insults, it was in the correct forum, and it laid out my complaints quite clearly. I concede it might have been worded slightly more tactfully, but this fact still should not preclude any moderator with a reasonable sense of duty and professionalism from answering it. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672/120 "2010-04-08T00:57:39Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Well, I’m not a moderator, so feel free to ignore my post, but I think that you can improve your odds of having a question answered if you phrase it in a civil fashion. With all due respect to mhendo, who has a store of knowledge that I have often benefitted from at the SDMB, (and I hope he will continue to grace the board with his contributions), the way the question in the OP was phrased might make some people disinclined to answer it. With all due respect, I’d still like a mod or admin’s answer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-are-you-kidding-me/533672.md?page=7)