# TubaDiva is back as an admin after less than 30 days - how do YOU feel? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470 "2005-03-14T15:46:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/341 "2005-03-17T02:30:01Z")
> [@byomtoob](#): > > Count me in the “she did nothing wrong” category. She made public an **alleged** offence without offering a shred of actual proof? Hadn’t she heard of ‘innocent until proven guilty’? The fact that the person she accused is still posting elsewhere seems to suggest that the authorities weren’t impressed with her evidence. Why couldn’t she just have informed the police and left it to them to make a case. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/342 "2005-03-17T03:06:57Z")
> [@byomtoob](#): > > I strongly believe that “it takes a village” and this is what TubaDiva was attempting to do. She saw a threat to the community and was sharing what she knew about this threat with others. _If_ SM had indeed contacted a minor board member, what threat did that pose to the “community” as a whole? Wouldn’t the minor in question be the only threatened party? I’m a member of the community, you’re a member, what effect would it have on either of us if SM was indeed trolling for minors? SM’s not a threat to me at all, I’m neither the right gender, sexuality, age or location, in fact 99% of the community wouldn’t fit those criteria. Sharing the knowledge? We can’t protect the kid, we don’t know who the kid is, remember? If this was motivated by concern for the minor, somehow alerting the minor’s parents or proper authorities in the area would go a long way toward protecting the kid, that’s being a good villager. Telling the rest of the village is just trying to get a lynch mob started. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/343 "2005-03-17T03:09:44Z")
> [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > She made public an **alleged** offence without offering a shred of actual proof? > > Hadn’t she heard of ‘innocent until proven guilty’? > > The fact that the person she accused is still posting elsewhere seems to suggest that the authorities weren’t impressed with her evidence. Why couldn’t she just have informed the police and left it to them to make a case. Either have the balls to come out and call her a liar or shut the fuck up. You’ve, once again, gone way past making any point into the realm of annoying douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/344 "2005-03-17T03:14:04Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Either have the balls to come out and call her a liar or shut the fuck up. You’ve, once again, gone way past making any point into the realm of annoying douchebag. There is very little doubt in my mind that **Tubadiva** received an email, which precipitated this whole thing. The email contained the alleged offense, and unless you can tell me how she managed to verify its veracity, hold a trial and get a conviction in the short time before posting it publicly, it is, in all senses of the word, an alleged offense. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/345 "2005-03-17T03:15:15Z")
**byomtoob** , if anything, she put people in danger, because said SEX OFFENDER might decide to get even with the alleged victim for reporting him. Are you really that fucking stupid? None of the rest of were ‘in danger’. And even if we were, all they had to do is post a “If anyone here harasses you, or contacts you inappropriately, let us know.” Best of intentions my ass. She started a lynch mob over an allegation of inappropriate behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/346 "2005-03-17T03:18:57Z")
So what can we do about it? ---
**Author:** ![byomtoob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@byomtoob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/byomtoob)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/347 "2005-03-17T03:46:44Z")
> [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > She made public an **alleged** offence without offering a shred of actual proof? > > Hadn’t she heard of ‘innocent until proven guilty’? Yes, she did that–there is no “burden of proof” in public discourse, only in criminal proceedings. Did you know that “innocent until proven guilty” applies to putting someone in jail, not in accusing them of an offense? Again, if we all followed this logic, nobody would be able to share the details of a potential offense that they were aware of. > [@](#): > > The fact that the person she accused is still posting elsewhere seems to suggest that the authorities weren’t impressed with her evidence. Why couldn’t she just have informed the police and left it to them to make a case. I’m sure she could have and maybe did. That said, are you not allowed to share that with other people, especially given that the safety of OTHER underage people might be involved? ---
**Author:** ![byomtoob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@byomtoob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/byomtoob)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/348 "2005-03-17T03:53:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **byomtoob** , if anything, she put people in danger, because said SEX OFFENDER might decide to get even with the alleged victim for reporting him. Are you really that fucking stupid? Perhaps I am – I continue to believe that shining the light of day on certain people’s reality is a good thing, not a bad one. > [@](#): > > None of the rest of were ‘in danger’. And even if we were, all they had to do is post a “If anyone here harasses you, or contacts you inappropriately, let us know.” > > Best of intentions my ass. She started a lynch mob over an allegation of inappropriate behavior. Truthfully, maybe I’ve missed something here. I’m not aware of any “lynch mob” Has what’s his face had to hide out of fear for his safety? Has anyone physically approached him because of TD’s comments? The only semblence of a lynch mob (not a literal one) that I’ve seen is the one coming after TD–but that’s not a lynch mob either BECAUSE ITS WORDS ON THE INTERNET, NOT REALITY. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/349 "2005-03-17T04:07:04Z")
> [@byomtoob](#): > > Its ridiculous to believe that its okay for the government to collect and publish this info, but not okay for people to share it with one another. The sex offender registries I’ve wandered across since this subject came up don’t find it so ridiculous. [For example](http://ma-sorb.gis.net/intro.htm) > [@MA site](#): > > By proceeding you are agreeing that you are a person who is 18 years of age or older, that you have read and understand the statements above, that you acknowledge that you are requesting this information for your own protection or for the protection of a child or another person for whom you have responsibility, care, custody, and that you believe you are likely to encounter an offender who may be posted on this website. > [@byomtoob](#): > > ITS WORDS ON THE INTERNET, NOT REALITY. Then I can dismiss your opinion without further thought. Thanks for the heads up. But wait. Those were just words on the internet. So now I can’t dismiss your comments… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/350 "2005-03-17T04:15:39Z")
> [@byomtoob](#): > > Yes, she did that–there is no “burden of proof” in public discourse, only in criminal proceedings. Did you know that “innocent until proven guilty” applies to putting someone in jail, not in accusing them of an offense? Again, if we all followed this logic, nobody would be able to share the details of a potential offense that they were aware of. Apparently, you’ve never heard of libel or slander. That’s why articles and reporters always say “allegations” and “alleged crimes”. Basically, following YOUR logic, I can say you are a rapist and you can’t say boo to a goose. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/351 "2005-03-17T04:15:48Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I don’t know, and I don’t really care: the ethics of the situation are what I’m concerned about, not necessarily the policies of the board. I figure Ed Zotti can handle the policy end of things just fine. > > I accept that what she did was a serious violation of policy, because the folks that make the policy say that. I accept that it wasn’t a serious enough violation of policy to justify removing her as an admin, because the folks that make the policy say that. > > I just don’t think it’s an ethical breach. And I **certainly** don’t think it’s a legal breach. > > Daniel Daniel, that is probably the most astute post in this entire thread – and there have been some sensible ones. As for me, having seen all the furore on this, I’m just humming, “It’s the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/352 "2005-03-17T05:23:31Z")
heh. I don’t post on the SDMB anymore [No worries **Shodan** , you’ll get the chance of ‘missing’ me ;)], but, ofcourse, I still read some of the messages. My reason for leaving had nothing to do with **TubaDiva**. I merely don’t like the number of assholes on this board. So - as someone said a couple of pages back - I shall pay up and renew. Even if I choose never to post again. Just to piss of those naggers here and those retards on LJ. Someone made a mistake. Jezus. **WELCOME BACK TUBADIVA** ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/353 "2005-03-17T05:31:38Z")
What??? This thread isn’t locked yet? You know I think we are all just a bunch of old women. (referring to the negative stereotypical cliche and no way implies any disrespect on my part for women over 30) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/354 "2005-03-17T05:54:15Z")
You might want to duck and cover **grienspace** : even in my most callow youth, I never would have considered a woman “old” for having attained the age of **30**. The notion that I’d have looked upon Sophia Loren, Marilyn Monroe, Gina Lolabrigida, Kim Novak, Cyd Charisse, Honor Blackman, or a number of other women as “old” (as opposed to “hot”) would have boggled even my youth-fixated teen mind. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/355 "2005-03-17T06:49:50Z")
I seem to recall **StageManager** had already thrown around the idea of an “Ask a Registered Sex Offender” thread. So the justification that **TD** was somehow alerting the community to a predator in its midst is slightly mushy… since the [information](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5629325&postcount=67) [was](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4425348&postcount=77) [already](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5629325&postcount=67) [available](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5798925&postcount=17). So the confidential information that **TubaDiva** exposed was not **SM** being a Registered Sex Offender. He’d already mentioned being a RSO several times… including shortly before (~2 days) he was banned. The privacy violation stems from posting a member’s real name and home address without their permission. The violation is exacerbated by her acknowledgement that she knew it was a privacy violation and was going to do it anyway based on a rather shaky rationalization. Independent of that… What, then, was the purpose of posting an already acknowledged RSO’s name and home address? Especially I can’t think of any reason that makes **TD** look good. The first one that pops into my mind moves it from “privacy violation” to “attempting to endanger someone’s life”. I just can’t buy the “good intentions” or “mistake” explanations with the information available. Anyone else want to try to cast it in a different light? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/356 "2005-03-17T07:05:58Z")
I asked this question in another thread but someone requested I not to hijack, I think it’s relevant here: How many posters, or socks thereof, have been banned out of sexual predator concerns? I obviously don’t want a bunch of people named or the specifics of your judgement process, just the numbers. In **Tuba** ’s defence, how many times COULD she have spilled the beans on someone? ---
**Author:** ![Legolamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@Legolamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolamb)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/357 "2005-03-17T10:59:52Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > So the confidential information that **TubaDiva** exposed was not **SM** being a Registered Sex Offender. He’d already mentioned being a RSO several times… including shortly before (~2 days) he was banned. The privacy violation stems from posting a member’s real name and home address without their permission. The violation is exacerbated by her acknowledgement that she knew it was a privacy violation and was going to do it anyway based on a rather shaky rationalization. The following is not a personal slam on you, **1010011010**. Rather you were the last person in the thread to make the same mistake so you were the easiest to quote. No, and this is where so many of the defenders, and some of the attackers, are going wrong. The Meagan’s Law information was publicly available, so, whilst posting it in the SDMB LJ and his personal LJ could possibly constitute harassment and therefore an illegal use of it, it was not a privacy violation, even though I’m sure it is the issue that **StageManager** may or may not take up with the authorities. However, the public revelation of a private allegation of abuse directed at **SM** by a younger poster in an email to **Tuba** that she could have only known about through her position as an admin _was_ a big privacy violation. As I said in my previous post, the allegation should only have been passed on to the authorities to investigate. By posting it publicly, it taints any future investigation and endangers the alleged victim (and maybe even the accused too) as well as possibly tarnishing any reputation the accused may have. IANAL but also, should the accusation prove unfounded, wouldn’t it open **TD** and, by association thanks to her use of her official title The Reader, up to a possible libel/slander suit (I always get the two mixed up)? I know I said I was going to move on, but too many posters are leaping into this thread feet first seemingly without even knowing the issues at hand. **Guinastasia** seems to have a pretty good handle on the issues, please can you all try reading some of her posts before letting your collective knees jerk too far? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/358 "2005-03-17T13:42:15Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Not me. I don’t think I’ve ever read the particular statute (state law, presumably) it was that created the sex offender registry in question, or any other such statute. I do believe I opined earlier that revealing publicly available information off such a registry is not a violation of any legally cognizable privacy right, but that’s due to the obvious fact that it ain’t private if it’s already public. But it seems an unwarranted leap from mere disclosure to actual harassment. Actual harassment, of course, would most likely be illegal in any event, independent of any inspiration for the harassment found in a sex offender registry. The part that I thought you’d said was inaccurate was that **Tuba’s** actions were in violation, not that Megan’s law prevents harrassment. As near as I can tell, your post that I’m quoting here supports what I was trying to say. > [@bordelond (formatted for clarity)](#): > > Let’s go into detail. Despite this being the Pit, surely we can discuss this reasonably. > > I will make two nuance-free arguments against my own position, and let me know if you agree, disagree, or mixed feelings about either one or both: > > Quote: > “There were conflicting interests in the situation – protection of a SDMB member versus SDMB administrative policy. The greater good was protection of said member – therefore, TD’s behavior was ethical.” No, or at least substantially no. While SM may have been interested in not having the allegation revealed, his interest in this is immaterial to me. If someone accuses me of molesting someone else, I do not think I have a right to privacy in regards to this accusation: as long as what people repeat is that an allegation has been made, they’re acting entirely appropriately, not violating my interests. (If **Tuba** said that SM **was** molesting someone, not merely that he’d been **accused** of it, then I apologize and will certainly condemn that action; however, my understanding is that she revealed that an allegation had been made). > [@](#): > > Quote: > “SM’s alleged behavior and TD’s subsequent behavior can be weighed against one another. SM’s alleged behavior was a greater misdeed than TD’s – therefore, TD’s behavior was ethical.” No. While they can be weighed against one another, TD’s actions weren’t unethical even if you take them in isolation. > [@catsix](#): > > Apparently around here, some people only question policy when it’s made by the government. **Catsix** , I complimented you when you weren’t being bitchy, but now you’re being a bitch. Don’t do that. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/359 "2005-03-17T13:55:16Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Either have the balls to come out and call her a liar or shut the fuck up. You’ve, once again, gone way past making any point into the realm of annoying douchebag. I have come to the conclusion that this board is not about fighting ignorance - it’s about ignorantly insulting people who don’t agree with you. Like a little lemming, you are blindly following a moderator in this ignorant name-calling … does it make you feel big?? Powerful??? I feel sorry for you, honestly, if the only way that you can find to counter an argument is to call another member a dirty name. STFU yourself - you’re pathetic, like a schoolkid in the playground, copying the bigger boys to make a name for yourself as a bully. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/360 "2005-03-17T14:02:43Z")
**Zombies** , you called people in the ATMB thread sycophants for welcoming **Tuba** back, said that we were nauseating and suck-ups. Are you really in a position to criticize other people for being insulting? Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470.md?page=19)