# TubaDiva is back as an admin after less than 30 days - how do YOU feel? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470 "2005-03-14T15:46:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/421 "2005-03-17T17:37:22Z")
> [@jester21](#): > > you are probably right. in addition to being a LIAR. she’s a guttless coward. 🙂 Post your devastating evidence, then. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/422 "2005-03-17T17:38:46Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Not really, **Guin**. I mean, we’re talking messageboard admin here, not attorney or physician. There’s not some sort of sacred code that the admins sign onto. It’s a pretty informal profession. Doesn’t mean there are no ethical considerations to the job, or that what ethical considerations there are may be taken more lightly. Here’s an intresting post **The Gaspode** made [in another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=302201&page=4&pp=50) (responding to **Polycarp** ): > [@The Gaspode](#): > > > [@Polycarp](#): > > > > Good Lord, can we beat this deceased equine any more? > > > > TubaDiva gave over six years of herself to keeping this board and its predecessor running smoothly, mixing justice and compassion in what I consider an eminently fair way. > > You know, Poly, I don’t like that kind of argument. Because (I’m going for a comparison, not a true analogy) that’s the same kind of justification an abused woman usually comes up with as a reason why she’s staying with her husband: “But it’s only when he’s drunk. When he’ sober, he’s just the sweetest thing.” > > I really don’t care how much unpaid work she put in. That shouldn’t factor, because then we end up in a situation where fuck ups must be weighed against previous accomplishments. And I think there should be absolute boundaries for mods and admins as well. It shouldn’t matter how much a person contributes to the board, when judging if that person is a jerk or not. I know the mods do this, when they’re discussing the banning of a long time poster. That’s their choice. But when of of their own fucks up, in a monumental way, previous work must be disregarded, precisely because that person has been instrumental in banning other posters for jerkish actions before. > > In essence, the credibility of SDMB rests on a foundation that no one is above the law. If exceptions are made, because a mod has worked for free for x number of years, then we end up in a situation where we must grade actions with work. Should Xash get away with the same stuff? Tomndebb? IIRC Manny got demoted for something far less serious. > > I don’t have any personal info, I paid through PayPal and in any case, I’ve got nothing illegal to hide. However, as a journalist, I have a very strong respect for the protection of sources. I also think that even the creepiest slimeball deserves his/her day in court. And I think a lot of actions (in general) are made because people think they have the moral high ground, and thus, can disregard legalities, common sense and decency and just pile on, feeling safe because they think no one will stand up and defend the rights of the slimeball. > > I for one think that justice is served when the slimeball gets a fair hearing - not when the slimeball gets kicked in the gonads by a randomself righteous prick. Because that doesn’t bring justice to the slime ball, it just serves to make the gonad kicker feel better about him/her self. > > And that’s the problem I have with TD - her actions only made her feel better. And for that, she violated trust. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/423 "2005-03-17T17:41:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Except that she has put her position as admin of this board on her resume, and asked us not to post TMI threads because of that. And the fact that we now PAY to post here. So she can’t have it both ways. Both what ways? I just don’t see how it’s extremely unprofessional. (FWIW, if you’d said “even slightly unprofessional,” I would’ve agreed). > [@](#): > > It’s that her appology came off as extremely self-serving-she didn’t so much regret what she had done because it was wrong, but because she had to deal with the consequences. That’s not how it read to me. > [@](#): > > Sorry, things changed when we started ponying up to come here. Sorry, but they didn’t. You have the choice to quit coming here: Lord knows you’ve more than gotten your $4.95 worth. If you don’t like it, your choices for how to respond are almost exactly what they were when the service was free. The difference is that if you decide to stay, you pay a nominal fee. You’re not buying their servitude for that fee: you’re buying exactly the service that you were getting for free before. If that’s not worth the cost to you, you can try to convince them to change the service; but if they don’t, they’ve not committed any wrong. You should just exercise your right not to purchase the service. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/424 "2005-03-17T17:42:11Z")
Well, they’ve got you here to defend her, **Hamlet**. 😉 And could you point out the apology? I don’t consider “I regret…” to be much of an apology. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/425 "2005-03-17T17:43:38Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Doesn’t mean there are no ethical considerations to the job, or that what ethical considerations there are may be taken more lightly. You’re right, it doesn’t mean that. It also doesn’t mean that she’s not allowed to eat an omelette for breakfast. Since I don’t think she **did** act unethically, neither point is relevant to me. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![jester21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@jester21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester21)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/426 "2005-03-17T17:44:33Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Post your devastating evidence, then. negative. it will NOT be posted _here_. I like this thread being open. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/427 "2005-03-17T17:45:11Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Well, they’ve got you here to defend her, **Hamlet**. From the slings and arrows of outrageous misinformation :). Not hardly a tough job. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/428 "2005-03-17T17:48:00Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > From the slings and arrows of outrageous misinformation … Maybe you were only aiming that comment at the more strident of your debate opponents. But surely you don’t think that the only way someone could be disagreeing with you here is through being misinformed? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/429 "2005-03-17T17:49:53Z")
Well, **Guin** the Chicago Reader has to handle the SDMB mods/admin carefully. Not every for profit company has a volunteer staff, it’s a rare jewel to be treasured. Like I said somewhere about this - it’s too late for now. The staff is going to have to hang tough with this decision for the time being. Maybe they’ll encourage **Tuba** to step down in a month or so. Try and aim it before the bulk of renewals. That way you still get all the people renewing early to support **Tuba** and still catch the outraged crowd. Anyway, I’m told dozens of sex predator worries have been banned over the last year. **Tuba** didn’t go around outing all them, so I guess she had some kind of decision process she went through. Ah, mysteries. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/430 "2005-03-17T17:52:58Z")
**Left Hand of Dorkness** , by “both ways” I mean she can’t claim, “Well, it wasn’t unprofessional because I don’t get PAID to do this-it’s just an internet message board!” while at the same time using her work here on her resume as an example of her experience. And yes, it did indeed change when things went pay. It’s no longer, “Our sandbox, our rules, too bad, so sad, put up or shut up, blah blah blah.” Since we are paying to post here, I expect some semblance of professionalism, and for accountability from the staff. We’re not seeing that. Yes, I do indeed have a choice to come here or not, and to pay or not pay. But I paid with the expectation of professionalism on part of the staff. For them to treat us with respect, and not give us any bullshit. If this is how they treat paying customers, then that’s pretty damned shitty. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/431 "2005-03-17T17:54:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Hamlet** , I don’t think it’s that we won’t accept an appology and still want to rake her over the coals. It’s that her appology came off as extremely self-serving-she didn’t so much regret what she had done because it was wrong, but because she had to deal with the consequences. I’m always leery of people who believe that an apology isn’t sincere enough for them when they have no stake in the matter. It comes down to certain posters don’t think she was punished enough. I got that point a month ago, no real need to make it for the 4,532nd time. Especially when you know they can’t respond. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > And then the whole, “Well, it’s over and done, let’s not discuss it!” sounds like more bullshitting, sweep it under the rug. This was a serious breach, and the board admins aren’t taking it as such. She’s still in a position of authority, she still seems to insist that she had good intentions, and that she was vindicated. But some of us are seriously pissed about the way it has been dealt with, and the way they’re STILL running this board as they did when it was a private, free service. Sorry, things changed when we started ponying up to come here. Rant, Rinse, Repeat ad nauseum. > [@leander](#): > > Well, they’ve got you here to defend her, Hamlet. Nah. I think they’re as pissed at me for not letting this damnable thread die down, but in my defense, I did wait 7 pages. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/432 "2005-03-17T18:27:06Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m always leery of people who believe that an apology isn’t sincere enough for them when they have no stake in the matter. TD was apologizing to the board at large. As such, any member has a legitimate opinion on the apology. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/433 "2005-03-17T18:36:13Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > It comes down to certain posters don’t think she was punished enough. It’s not about the punishment. It’s about removing her from a position of authority so the abuse of her privileges will be lessened. If it were up to me, TD would not have been suspended, nor banned, but immediately stripped of her administrative title. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/434 "2005-03-17T18:47:54Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#): > > It’s not about the punishment. It’s about removing her from a position of authority so the abuse of her privileges will be lessened. > > If it were up to me, TD would not have been suspended, nor banned, but immediately stripped of her administrative title. Why? Has **TubaDiva** demonstrated herself to be a threat to the privacy of anyone other than sex offenders trolling the Straight Dope for new victims? Frankly, if all the pedophiles who might be patrolling the Straight Dope become so fearful for their precious “privacy” that they let their subscriptions lapse, I won’t shed one. fucking. tear. And I will thank **TubaDiva** for the valuable service she has performed. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/435 "2005-03-17T18:54:38Z")
ALLEGED pedophiles! Hasn’t it occurred to you that someone might be falsely accused? Just going by some of the snark journal threads, I’ve seen more than a few Dopers accused of being kiddy diddlers. She also let the guy know that his alleged victim had reported him, puting said victim in danger. Are you really that fucking stupid? :rolleyes: Again, I am not so much saying she’ll break the privacy policy specifically, but that she will behave unprofessionally and let her emotions cloud her judgement. This wasn’t the first time she did such a thing. (Her comments in the **vanilla** banning, getting a parting shot in when the banned couldn’t respond then locking the thread; her shutting down TMI threads because it looked bad on her resume; the magic tricks fiasco, and the charity threads for members even when it was explained why it was a bad idea.) Jesus ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/436 "2005-03-17T18:54:46Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Why? Has **TubaDiva** demonstrated herself to be a threat to the privacy of anyone other than sex offenders trolling the Straight Dope for new victims? She certainly has. She’s demonstrated herself to be a threat to the privacy of anyone **being accused** of doing that. A small but immensely important distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/437 "2005-03-17T18:59:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Left Hand of Dorkness** , by “both ways” I mean she can’t claim, “Well, it wasn’t unprofessional because I don’t get PAID to do this-it’s just an internet message board!” while at the same time using her work here on her resume as an example of her experience. Clearly she CAN claim that if she wants to. It’s your choice not to find such a claim satisfying (if she makes it); I would certainly be satisfied by such a claim, and am actually having trouble figuring out what would be wrong with it. > [@](#): > > And yes, it did indeed change when things went pay. It’s no longer, “Our sandbox, our rules, too bad, so sad, put up or shut up, blah blah blah.” Since we are paying to post here, I expect some semblance of professionalism, and for accountability from the staff. We’re not seeing that. Your expectation of professionalism is irrelevant. Maybe I expect that once I’m paying for membership, they’ll send me chocolate on my birthday. That’d be equally irrelevant. The only bearing your expectations have on the board is that now, you may express your dissatisfaction with the thwarting of your expectations by withholding membership fees from them. That is, I repeat, **the only bearing**. * * * A story: Theresa is the manager of a coffeeshop and music club, where people of all ages come to drink coffee, eat muffins, talk, and listen to folk music. She enjoys her job. One day, a guy comes in that she recognizes as a convicted sex offender. She’s not sure what to do about it: she’s considering kicking him out, but doesn’t, because he’s not done anything in there. And then one of the kids who visits the coffeeshop regularly comes up to her and tells her that this guy had cornered her in a back room and tried to put his hand up her shirt. Theresa loses it. She physically hauls the guy out of the coffeeshop in front of all the other patrons and yells at him that she never wants to see his face again, and that if he ever tries something like that in her town again, he’s a dead man. Somebody asks me what I think about Theresa. **Were her actions professional**? Not really. A cafe manager shouldn’t scream at a paying customer, no matter what. **Were her actions extremely unprofessional**? Not really. It’s not like she just up and started screaming at some poor schmuck who asked for a third cup of coffee. **Were her actions illegal**? Probably not: the only threat she made was contingent on the “victim” committing illegal actoin, and my understanding is that such a threat is not illegal. (For the purposes of this analogy, let’s presume that attorneys have backed up this understanding). **Should she be fired**? Definitely not. The owners should commend her for keeping the cafe a safe place, although they may want to chastize her for making a scene. **Were her actions unethical**? No. She believed, with good cause, that she was protecting someone from a vicious crime. If she acted in a rash manner, it was for understandable reasons. For me, the two stories are relevant in all important ways, with the only important difference being the alleged crimes committed by **Tuba** and **Theresa**. I fault neither of them for their actions. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/438 "2005-03-17T19:06:32Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > She certainly has. She’s demonstrated herself to be a threat to the privacy of anyone **being accused** of doing that. A small but immensely important distinction. No. She’s demonstrated herself to be a **tiny** threat to the privacy of anyone **being credibly accused** of doing that. Two more small but important distinctions. I guarantee you that if someone accuses me of being a child molestor, things will turn out differently. And the only thing stopping me from double-dog-daring you to try is that doing so would be jerkish. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/439 "2005-03-17T19:10:16Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > No. She’s demonstrated herself to be a tiny threat to the privacy of anyone **being credibly accused** of doing that. Two more small but important distinctions. On what basis do you base “credibly.” So far as I can tell, SM has yet to suffer any legal repercussions, which would suggest TD’s statements were premature. And the point still stands that she should not have publically disclosed that information, regardless of TD’s perceived validity of said statement. ---
**Author:** ![jester21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@jester21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester21)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470/440 "2005-03-17T19:10:27Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > No. She’s demonstrated herself to be a **tiny** threat to the privacy of anyone **being credibly accused** of doing that. Two more small but important distinctions. Unless you are a Sock of TD… you have absolutely no way of knowing that the accucsation in question was in any way credible. That is of course, assuming TD didn’t email you all the pertainant information. Given her history of handing out privliged information, i’ll grant that this is a distinct possibility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-is-back-as-an-admin-after-less-than-30-days-how-do-you-feel/294470.md?page=23)