# TubaDiva, you may have missed this. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 6, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421 "2011-09-06T18:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/41 "2011-09-07T02:30:05Z")
Again, **magellan01** , calling someone “racist” is a personal comment and is discouraged, but it is not a personal insult. I’ve addressed this issue before. Just to muddy the waters, **tomndebb** does describe it as name calling in the posts I’m linking to. > [@Calling someone racist is a personal insult](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/11): > > If someone was that upfront about it I don’t think I’d object, but I’d rather see posters take their arguments apart than just call them racist. We have some posters with views that are racist or near-racist. They like to complain that people are calling them racist to shut them up, but Dopers rarely accuse them of racism. > > I mentioned I found a few instances of “racist” being moderated. They’re here: [from Great Debates last December](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11847743#post11847743), [one in MPSIMS in March](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12276223) (although this could be about the tone, not just the use of the word racist), and [another in GD in January 2009](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10670426#post10670426). > [@Personal views in a Mod Post.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-views-in-a-mod-post/519968/5): > > **brickbacon** was asking, in essence, if it’s okay to call a poster a racist in Great Debates if it’s true, or if the poster acknowledges it. I think **tomndebb** and I agree that in both cases, it isn’t because it’s still a personal remark. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/42 "2011-09-07T02:31:46Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > **magellan01** , if I speak bluntly, reading your misplaced anger in this thread reminds me of the movie _Overboard_. Allow me to quote: My hair? What’s wrong with my hair?!!! This is so trouble some because its so common. If I put a toe near the line, Notes Warnings, pre Warnings. Other posters (who just happen to share the mods’ more liberal sensibilities) can can jump over the line with both feet and give the finger and …crickets. It’s just not even-handed. And if you were on the receiving end of the calls always going one way, you might appear to be overly upset, as well. The fact that **Der Trihs** gets admonished as seldom as he does is testament to what I’ve just said. But we needn’t look elsewhere. The example in this very thread is flagrant enough, and the response from the mods tortured enough to say it all. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/43 "2011-09-07T02:32:50Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This is so trouble some because its so common. If I put a toe near the line, Notes Warnings, pre Warnings. Other posters (who just happen to share the mods’ more liberal sensibilities) can can jump over the line with both feet and give the finger and …crickets. Both of you got a mod note, but don’t let that get in the way. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/44 "2011-09-07T02:41:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Again, **magellan01** , calling someone “racist” is a personal comment and is discouraged, but it is not a personal insult. I’ve addressed this issue before. Just to muddy the waters, **tomndebb** does describe it as name calling in the posts I’m linking to. Thank you for going through the trouble of assembling those. He calls it name calling because it is—at minimum! It’s clearly an attack on the poster himself, one intended to denigrate. Combine that with the explanation from **C K Dexter Haven** , and you have a clear and flagrant violation by **An Gadai.** ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/45 "2011-09-07T02:43:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It’s clearly an attack on the poster himself, one intended to denigrate. Combine that with the explanation from **C K Dexter Haven** , and you have a clear and flagrant violation by **An Gadai.** If the first three times didn’t do it, I’m thinking I don’t need to bother with a fourth. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/46 "2011-09-07T02:48:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Both of you got a mod note, but don’t let that get in the way. No, I won’t, because that just exacerbated the injustice. The only snark I sent his way was the “and your ilk”, which by itself is no big deal. It’s used all quite often and I’ve never once seen it draw a comment from a mod. I don’t particularly like it, so I used the same phrase right back at him. But his clear violation got a pass. But fine, on a scale of 1 - 10, say we both get a 1.2 for the “and your ilk”. But he deserves a 8+ for such a flagrant violation. It’s an attack on a poster. It’s name calling. And it was not done in the only forum in which that is allowed: the Pit. If I deserved a Note, he deserved a Warning for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/47 "2011-09-07T02:54:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No, I won’t, because that just exacerbated the injustice. You need to get some perspective here. _It’s just a mod note._ You were both included in the note because you were arguing with each other. His tone was less civil, but you were both rearguing the issue in ATMB, and we don’t want posters to do that whether they are polite or not. This is not the forum for it. Arguments belong in the relevant forums and personal disputes go in the Pit. We don’t usually warn posters for calling each other racists, so **An Gadaí** got a note and not a warning. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/48 "2011-09-07T02:56:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If the first three times didn’t do it, I’m thinking I don’t need to bother with a fourth. Okay, new question. I understand you think that **An Gadai’s** calling me a racist is not an insult, but are you also claiming that it is not name-calling? If so, how does that jibe with this? > [@](#): > > Just as a reminder and general statement: **name-calling directed at other posters is NOT PERMITTED on the Straight Dope Message Boards, except in the forum called "The BBQ Pit**." In all other forums, name-calling/personal insults are a direct violation of our rules. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/49 "2011-09-07T02:59:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You need to get some perspective here. _It’s just a mod note._ You were both included in the note because you were arguing with each other. His tone was less civil, but you were both rearguing the issue in ATMB, and we don’t want posters to do that whether they are polite or not. This is not the forum for it. Arguments belong in the relevant forums and personal disputes go in the Pit. We don’t usually warn posters for calling each other racists, so **An Gadaí** got a note and not a warning. It’s not the fact that it’s a mod not. I’ve received others that I’ve not complained about. I’ve even received Warnings where I could see the problem. The problem here is the inequity. As per my last email, is it your opinion that **An Gadai** was not engaged in name-calling? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/50 "2011-09-07T03:06:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I understand you think that **An Gadai’s** calling me a racist is not an insult, but are you also claiming that it is not name-calling? It’s not what I think of when I think of the term name calling, since racist can be used in a descriptive or non-insulting way and names like “idiot” can’t. But I see that **tomndebb** and **C K Dexter Haven** both seem to have lumped it under “name calling” and I understand why. I’d repeat what I said earlier: it’s personal commentary and it’s discouraged, but it’s not something that is going to draw a warning in almost all instances the way other terms will. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/51 "2011-09-07T05:06:50Z")
Give it up. I honestly agree with you, but if there’s one thing that will not happen on this board, that is a previous decision being changed once they’ve confirmed it. The only thing you can hope for is future modification. And you haven’t hit on the issue du jour, and thus no one else is helping you, so you’re unlikely to get that, either. Still, I prefer this place over places that won’t even pretend to be trying to be fair. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/52 "2011-09-07T05:37:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Other posters (who just happen to share the mods’ more liberal sensibilities) can can jump over the line with both feet and give the finger and …crickets. Wouldn’t that be “dance over the line”? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/53 "2011-09-07T10:33:11Z")
I applaud the moderators for showing far more patience than I would have. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/54 "2011-09-07T11:08:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I applaud the moderators for showing far more patience than I would have. Eh, patient but wrong isn’t very impressive. If someone at work constantly referred to you as a racist, would you just say to yourself “oh, no big deal, that’s not an insult?” Anyone claiming it’s not name calling or insulting is being purposefully ignorant. **magellan01** ’s views are awful in my opinion, and I pretty much can’t stand him, but that doesn’t make him wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/55 "2011-09-07T11:40:16Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Eh, patient but wrong isn’t very impressive. Yeah, but it’s a message board, run by the arbitrary likes and dislikes of whoever’s paying the bills, and even with that in mind and for the most part, I find the moderation here to be pretty relaxed and evenhanded. magellan could easily set up his _own_ board and “note”/warn/ban on a whim to his heart’s content. > [@](#): > > If someone at work constantly referred to you as a racist, would you just say to yourself “oh, no big deal, that’s not an insult?” Anyone claiming it’s not name calling or insulting is being purposefully ignorant. Well, if the person was sincere, I’d probably think he was nuts or very very immature, and I’d shrug him off or mock him by singing _Avenue Q_ songs to him. If it is an empty insult (and of course how could the determination be anything but arbitrary?), it’s a vapid and tepid one, and if it’s a supportable claim (i.e. the “racist” has numerous posts about “niggers” and whatnot) then it’s just an obvious label. Heck, if someone wants to call me a racist on this board, I don’t care. It just gives me license to question and mock the credibility of that person’s ability to evaluate things. > [@](#): > > **magellan01** ’s views are awful in my opinion, and I pretty much can’t stand him, but that doesn’t make him wrong. Well, I could buy that he honesty feels insulted if someone calls him a racist. It’s just not clear to me that he (or anyone else so claiming) should get any special consideration for it. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/56 "2011-09-07T11:59:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I could buy that he honesty feels insulted if someone calls him a racist. It’s just not clear to me that he (or anyone else so claiming) should get any special consideration for it. I guess that’s the difference of opinions here - I don’t think preventing one poster from calling another a racist is any different than preventing them from calling another poster an asshole. So, to me, it’s not special. I know I’d personally be more insulted if someone called me a racist, rather than an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/57 "2011-09-07T13:12:19Z")
In any case, since he’s started a thread to complain about the unsatisfactory reaction to his posts, and then another thread to complain about the unsatisfactory reaction to his complaint, I look forward to his next thread complaining about the unsatisfactory reaction to his complaint about the unsatisfactory reaction to his complaint about the unsatisfactory reaction to his posts. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/58 "2011-09-07T16:36:52Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Wearing my **TubaDiva** hat\* for a moment (it doesn’t fit well, but I’ll pretend), … I don’t think Tuba will appreciate you wearing her clothes. This won’t end well. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/59 "2011-09-07T21:07:27Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > If I called someone a tea-partiest (…), they may not like it one bit, but that doesn’t mean it’s an insult. Nitpick - tea-party_ist_. _ist_ is the person who does. _est_ is having that quality in the mostest. With regards to the issue, the histrionics aside, I can sort of feel megellan’s pain. “Racist” feels to me like the kind of comment that is an insult. I understand the fine parsing that’s being given to say it’s a personal remark that has some legitimate descriptive value. Perhaps a parallel is the use of “liar” and “lying” and whatnot - off limits for GD while not explicitly outlawed in other forums. What I see is a fair comment that An Gadai was a lot more harsh and abusive to megellan than magellan was in response, but they were modded the same. At a certain level, that seems mildly unfair. But I think the staff fully admits that the level of comments were not on par with each other. They also point out that by the way they have been moderating the terms, An Gadai did not cross the threshhold from personal comment to insult. So while is tone was harsher, it wasn’t yet to the next level of behavior for moderation. Ergo, TubaDiva dropped a mod note to both of them with regards to the sniping in ATMB. So let me drop an aknowledgement to megellan for attempting to take the higher road, and not responding with his own brand of insults, “replying in kind”. Too many posters take that path, and then get modded for it and complain “but He started it”. Magellan didn’t do that, he used the sanctioned path of reporting the post. So kudos for that. Sorry this didn’t get quite the response you expected/hoped. That said, continued argument of the point isn’t going to go anywhere. You’ve been heard, your argument has not been accepted. Grumble about it to yourself and move on. [QUOTE=magellan01] Wait. I thought this is what this forum was for…to discuss the board, it’s moderation, etc. No? [/QUOTE] She was referring to the argument about whether was justification for racial differences in IQ, not the argument about the moderating about that issue. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/60 "2011-09-07T21:44:14Z")
[QUOTE=TubaDiva] What is “ilk” anyway? 😃 [/QUOTE] I got one. It’s cute and fuzzy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421.md?page=4)