# TubaDiva, you may have missed this. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 6, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421 "2011-09-06T18:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/61 "2011-09-08T10:53:55Z")
This is not to argue to **Marley23’s** decision, but it is puzzling to me. I had rather be called a bitch or a whore than a racist. I’ve seen how cruel and crude real racists can be. It is the ultimate in arrogance combined with stupidity and stubbornness. I cannot imagine any sense in which it would not be an insult. I hope in the future that some reconsideration might be given to this. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/62 "2011-09-08T11:47:55Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I got one. It’s cute and fuzzy. a/s/l? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/63 "2011-09-08T12:24:34Z")
[[Quote=dictionary.com](http://Quote=dictionary.com)] rac·ist   [rey-sist] Show IPA noun 1. a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that a certain human race is superior to any or all others. adjective 2. of or like racists or racism: racist policies; racist attitudes. [/quote] It _can_ be used as an insult, but its primary use is as a descriptor. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/64 "2011-09-08T13:17:26Z")
And suppose, just for the sake of argument and in the proper context, one wishes to describe another poster as a dickfaced cheesebrain…? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/65 "2011-09-08T13:31:22Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I guess that’s the difference of opinions here - I don’t think preventing one poster from calling another a racist is any different than preventing them from calling another poster an asshole. So, to me, it’s not special. I know I’d personally be more insulted if someone called me a racist, rather than an asshole. And I’d be more insulted if someone called me a conservative than if they called me an asshole, but that still doesn’t make calling someone a conservative off limits. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/66 "2011-09-08T13:49:08Z")
Only if they actually have a dick on their face and cheese in their skull. A better example might be “retarded”. That word just means “slowed down”. It’s original use was a formal way to say “not very bright”. But any word that has an objective meaning can become an insult if that meaning has negative connotations. It’s one reason why coming up with new PC labels for things is doomed to failure. Rename _retarded_ as _develepmentally challenged_, you just get that turned into the equivalent insult. "You’re _special"_, from “special needs”. “You’re _challenged_.” So, if a person is espousing views that some races are superior than others, that view is objectively “racist”. So a person espousing those views could objectively be termed a racist. But the connotations that word carries means it will be insulting to some segment of the population, possibly even the one using the word. A similar example might be _pedophile_. For an adult that desires or pursues sex with children, that word is accurate. But it can also be thrown out to describe someone who, say, makes a comment about a teenaged celebrity looking cute. Or like the example recently, the accusation if not the word is used to describe the father in a commercial, the one where the parents are trying to decide which kid gets to pick the second show to record on the DVR, and dad makes comments about how pretty their daughter is. In another thread someone decided that is the father having fantasies of killing off his wife and taking his daughter as his new sex partner. So, sometimes it might be accurate to say someone is a racist, and sometimes that label is just getting thrown out to denigrate the opponent. Sounds like a tough thing to moderate. If you classify it as an insult and bar it, then it hinders actual description of certain views about race. If you don’t classify it as an insult, then people throw it around willy-nilly. If you try to evaluate each circumstance on its own merits, you get accused of being arbitrary or biased. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/67 "2011-09-08T14:11:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And suppose, just for the sake of argument and in the proper context, one wishes to describe another poster as a dickfaced cheesebrain…? Can one provide a dictionary definition of “dickfaced cheesebrain”? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/68 "2011-09-08T14:20:35Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Nitpick - tea-party_ist_. _ist_ is the person who does. _est_ is having that quality in the mostest. > > With regards to the issue, the histrionics aside, I can sort of feel megellan’s pain. “Racist” feels to me like the kind of comment that is an insult. I understand the fine parsing that’s being given to say it’s a personal remark that has some legitimate descriptive value. Perhaps a parallel is the use of “liar” and “lying” and whatnot - off limits for GD while not explicitly outlawed in other forums. > > What I see is a fair comment that An Gadai was a lot more harsh and abusive to megellan than magellan was in response, but they were modded the same. At a certain level, that seems mildly unfair. But I think the staff fully admits that the level of comments were not on par with each other. They also point out that by the way they have been moderating the terms, An Gadai did not cross the threshhold from personal comment to insult. So while is tone was harsher, it wasn’t yet to the next level of behavior for moderation. Ergo, TubaDiva dropped a mod note to both of them with regards to the sniping in ATMB. > > So let me drop an aknowledgement to megellan for attempting to take the higher road, and not responding with his own brand of insults, “replying in kind”. Too many posters take that path, and then get modded for it and complain “but He started it”. Magellan didn’t do that, he used the sanctioned path of reporting the post. So kudos for that. Sorry this didn’t get quite the response you expected/hoped. > > That said, continued argument of the point isn’t going to go anywhere. You’ve been heard, your argument has not been accepted. Grumble about it to yourself and move on. Thank you for parsing this as carefully as you did. I’d just add that even if the term does not rise to the level of insult (which I still think is absurd), it is still name-calling, an attack on the poster. And THAT is still disallowed in any forum other than the Pit, as per **C K Dexter Haven’s** post: [QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] Just as a reminder and general statement: name-calling directed at other posters is NOT PERMITTED on the Straight Dope Message Boards, except in the forum called “The BBQ Pit.” In all other forums, name-calling/personal insults are a direct violation of our rules. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/69 "2011-09-08T14:28:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It _can_ be used as an insult, but its primary use is as a descriptor. I don’t think anyone has claimed that it can only be used as an insult. Do a quick search of the term as used by **tomndebb**. You’ll find plenty of instances where the term is used in discussion by him and others appropriately. But in those instances the term is not used to describe another poster in an attempt to denigrate him or discount their views. That is not the case with the instance in question. How you can attempt to claim that **An Gadai** was not attacking me—and that is what you’re doing, even if it’s unintentional—is mind boggling. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/70 "2011-09-08T14:30:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I don’t think anyone has claimed that it can only be used as an insult. Do a quick search of the term as used by **tomndebb**. You’ll find plenty of instances where the term is used in discussion by him and others appropriately. But in those instances the term is not used to describe another poster in an attempt to denigrate him or discount their views. > > That is not the case with the instance in question. How you can attempt to claim that **An Gadai** was not attacking me—and that is what you’re doing, even if it’s unintentional—is mind boggling. _If_ **An Gadai** thinks that you have racist viewpoints, do you think that he should be able to use the word “racist” to describe you? If not, what word would be an acceptable substitute? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/71 "2011-09-08T14:36:09Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > a/s/l? I haven’t seen that for 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/72 "2011-09-08T14:56:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _If_ **An Gadai** thinks that you have racist viewpoints, do you think that he should be able to use the word “racist” to describe you? If not, what word would be an acceptable substitute? No. He can refer to me as **magellan01**. No ad hominem necessary, directly or as a descriptor. He can then go on to attack those viewpoints I hold—or he thinks I hold—as vigorously as he likes. You do realize it is possible to do this, right? So tell me, is it your opinion that he was not using name-calling to denigrate the poster: me? I’d like to add, if this need to describe me as racist is so strong that he can’t control his fingers, he always has the option of going to the pit and letting his freak flag fly. Like I might do when I feel that I need to say more to **Der Trihs** or another poster I’d like to slap, than is allowed in a particular forum. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/73 "2011-09-08T15:03:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No. He can refer to me as **magellan01**. No ad hominem necessary, directly or as a descriptor. He can then go on to attack those viewpoints I hold—or he thinks I hold—as vigorously as he likes. You do realize it is possible to do this, right? It is also possible to not use words like “liberal”, “conservative”, and “Religious” to describe people(all of which certain posters have claimed to be insulting to them.) > [@magellan01](#): > > So tell me, is it your opinion that he was not using name-calling to denigrate the poster: me? I don’t _know_ if his purpose was to denigrate you or to use the term as a descriptor of what he thinks your views are-I just know that _you_ take it as a denigration. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/74 "2011-09-08T15:12:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It is also possible to not use words like “liberal”, “conservative”, and “Religious” to describe people(all of which certain posters have claimed to be insulting to them.) You’re kidding. Based on your logic here, one can use the term “pedophile” to describe a poster and you make room for the defense “Oh, I didn’t mean it as an insult, I was just the word as a descriptor.” Yeesh. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t _know_ if his purpose was to denigrate you or to use the term as a descriptor of what he thinks your views are-I just know that _you_ take it as a denigration. Well, good thing I didn’t ask you what you “know” then. I asked you for your _opinion_. His words are still there. You can read them. And surely you can form an opinion. So, again: (emphasis added) > [@](#): > > So tell me, is it your _opinion_ that he was not using name-calling to denigrate the poster: me? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/75 "2011-09-08T15:18:33Z")
I think that _he_ thinks he was using the word to accurately and precisely describe what he thinks is your viewpoint…but I’m just guessing at this point. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/76 "2011-09-08T15:26:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think that _he_ thinks he was using the word to accurately and precisely describe what he thinks is your viewpoint…but I’m just guessing at this point. Yes. I’m confused. Is there a less loaded term for describing people who believe in the intellectual or physical superiority of one “race” over another? Racialist? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/77 "2011-09-08T15:31:08Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Yes. I’m confused. Is there a less loaded term for describing people who believe in the intellectual or physical superiority of one “race” over another? Racialist? And here is the apparent conflict: One side is using the word as a dictionary-defined descriptor, and the other side is receiving the word as an intentional insult. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/78 "2011-09-08T15:35:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think that _he_ thinks he was using the word to accurately and precisely describe what he thinks is your viewpoint…but I’m just guessing at this point. Okay. Again, what is _your_ opinion? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/79 "2011-09-08T15:37:43Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Yes. I’m confused. Is there a less loaded term for describing people who believe in the intellectual or physical superiority of one “race” over another? Racialist? Aside from the FACT that that’s not what I believe, you needn’t use either term. You can either use the term and not link it to a poster, or address the beliefs I hold—or you _think_ I hold. It’s really that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421/80 "2011-09-08T15:37:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Okay. Again, what is _your_ opinion? Um..answered in post #75. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tubadiva-you-may-have-missed-this/595421.md?page=5)