# Tucker Carlson loves France \_because\_ they bombed Greenpeace? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672 "2005-08-12T01:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/61 "2005-08-13T21:52:09Z")
> [@](#): > > that’s not what they were intending on doing. Not true. They mined a private vessel in the middle of the night, with crew sleeping aboard, with the intention of scuttling the ship…regardless of who might be injured or killed. This is the military we’re talking about. They know what their ordnance does. The passengers were murdered. Remember that the vessel had not crossed any boundary. It had done nothing illegal. It was unarmed. If it had intruded into the French military zone, perhaps they’d have a valid case, but it did not. The French government is guilty of acting unilaterally to destroy private property and cause loss of life. The attack was filthy, cowardly, and completely despicable. No moral person could possibly think otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/62 "2005-08-13T21:52:58Z")
And isn’t announcing the intentions of trespassing and planning to trespass in a secured military zone, a criminal act in and of itself? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/63 "2005-08-13T21:55:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Life goes on…for those of us not stupid enough to be on that boat, that had proclaimed it’s intentions to go where it shouldn’t. I’m declaring my intentions to go rob the corner store! If you shoot me now, are you a murderer? Of course you are. I have done nothing wrong. If the French government wanted to stop the vessel from crossing into the military zone, it should have intercepted it at the boundary, boarded her, and arrested all aboard. And yes, apparently, you’re a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/64 "2005-08-13T21:57:12Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Not true. They mined a private vessel in the middle of the night, with crew sleeping aboard, with the intention of scuttling the ship…regardless of who might be injured or killed. This is the military we’re talking about. They know what their ordnance does. > > The passengers were murdered. > > Remember that the vessel had not crossed any boundary. It had done nothing illegal. It was unarmed. If it had intruded into the French military zone, perhaps they’d have a valid case, but it did not. > > The French government is guilty of acting unilaterally to destroy private property and cause loss of life. The attack was filthy, cowardly, and completely despicable. > > No moral person could possibly think otherwise. two terrorist were killed. they planned to intrude on French military zone or otherwise harass and make dangerous a French military zone, no? They’re is nothing despicable about destroying a terrorist ship or the terrorist that inhabit the ship. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/65 "2005-08-13T21:58:55Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > And isn’t announcing the intentions of trespassing and planning to trespass in a secured military zone, a criminal act in and of itself? So arrest them. Don’t fucking murder them. In any case, I sincerely doubt it. If I stated my intention, while in the United States of America, to cross into the waters of a _foreign nation_, would that foreign nation be justified in assassinating me on my own property…_in this country_? Hell no. Are you insane? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/66 "2005-08-13T22:00:03Z")
> [@](#): > > two terrorist were killed. > > they planned to intrude on French military zone or otherwise harass and make dangerous a French military zone, no? > > They’re is nothing despicable about destroying a terrorist ship or the terrorist that inhabit the ship. Yep, you’re insane. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/67 "2005-08-13T22:02:24Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I’m declaring my intentions to go rob the corner store! > > If you shoot me now, are you a murderer? Of course you are. I have done nothing wrong. But you sure can arrested for it. And in a store in many US states, probably shot for stating that intention inside the store in a mennancing manner. I’m sure that announcing your intention to seriously interfere with a country’s military in a highly dangerous manouver when you have shown yourself to be capable of doing so and have done quite similar acts past could definitely get one self killed. As is the case here. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/68 "2005-08-13T22:06:06Z")
> [@](#): > > But you sure can arrested for it. So arrest me. If you sneak up to my house and bomb it in the middle of the night, you are a murderer. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/69 "2005-08-13T22:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > And in a store in many US states, probably shot for stating that intention inside the store in a mennancing manner. Oh, and the _Rainbow Warrior_ was not “in the store.” Your analogy is completely invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/70 "2005-08-13T22:08:04Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Yep, you’re insane. Really? You intend committ a terrorist act. You plan for it. And then then you announce that your going to do it. And then you’re suprised that country against which the terrorist act is planned retaliates, and you’re mad about it. It seems that the insane one is you. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/71 "2005-08-13T22:10:48Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > So arrest me. If you sneak up to my house and bomb it in the middle of the night, you are a murderer. I’m not a country. By your analogy then, the US under Bill Clinton was a murderer for bombing Sudan and Afgahnistan. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/72 "2005-08-13T22:12:37Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Oh, and the _Rainbow Warrior_ was not “in the store.” Your analogy is completely invalid. But the ship was the equivalent of being in a public place outside of a store waving a gun around (if you want to stick your analogies). ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/73 "2005-08-13T22:20:10Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > So arrest them. Don’t fucking murder them. > > In any case, I sincerely doubt it. If I stated my intention, while in the United States of America, to cross into the waters of a _foreign nation_, would that foreign nation be justified in assassinating me on my own property…_in this country_? > > Hell no. Are you insane? You left out the part about significant, dangerous harrassment of a foreign nation’s military conducting important national security matters. If I was a member of the foreign nation, I don’t think that I would have a problem with it from a philosophical point of view. We as a country have acted similarly in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/74 "2005-08-13T22:23:56Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > You left out the part about significant, dangerous harrassment of a foreign nation’s military conducting important national security matters. If I was a member of the foreign nation, I don’t think that I would have a problem with it from a philosophical point of view. We as a country have acted similarly in the past. Practically, from a theoretical standpoint as a member of that foreign nation, I would think that the US is a dog whose chain you don’t want to rattle by interfering within its borders. NZ and enviromental extremist/animal rightist movement was a apparently not considered a big enough dog at the time. Though they have proved to be noisy barker. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/75 "2005-08-13T22:25:13Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Really? You intend committ a terrorist act. You plan for it. And then then you announce that your going to do it. And then you’re suprised that country against which the terrorist act is planned retaliates, and you’re mad about it. It seems that the insane one is you. It wasn’t a terrorist act. They were unarmed, as always. No destruction of life or property, prerequisites for the label “terrorism,” was planned. At most, they were guilty of announcing their intention of staging a protest in restricted waters. At the very most, their actions called for arrest…if they had actually crossed the line. As it was, they did nothing at all wrong, and were murdered for it. > [@](#): > > I’m not a country. By your analogy then, the US under Bill Clinton was a murderer for bombing Sudan and Afgahnistan. Possibly, but probably not. After all, our embassies were bombed, and innocent people had lost their lives. No such situation existed in the case of the _Rainbow Warrior_. > [@](#): > > But the ship was the equivalent of being in a public place outside of a store waving a gun around (if you want to stick your analogies). What gun? They were unarmed. And they were quite a bit further away than “outside the store.” To stick with my analogy, I would have to announce my intention to rob a store (actually, I’d only have to announce that I’d cross onto its private property) several days away from where I actually lived. So _then_ you’d be justified in coming to my house and blowing it up? Is that about right? You have no case. None. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/76 "2005-08-13T22:28:16Z")
> [@](#): > > You left out the part about significant, dangerous harrassment of a foreign nation’s military conducting important national security matters. Uh huh. Sure. And if they had actually engaged in any sort of significant harrassment, then perhaps the French military would have been justified in blowing them out of the water, but they never actually did anything, did they? They would have even been justified in boarding the vessel and arresting everyone on board once they crossed the line, but again, they never actually did anything, did they? ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/77 "2005-08-13T22:57:38Z")
**Unregistered Bull** – I have a policy of never, ever calling another Doper a “despicable cunt”, even in the Pit. It’s just not polite. Gotta say, though, you’re making me reexamine my policies. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/78 "2005-08-13T23:04:22Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > And yes, apparently, you’re a fool. But not foolish enough to have done what those aboard the Rainbow Warrior did. I think I can live with that. They can’t, but I can. I have no sympathy for those idiots. If they want sympathy they can look in the dictionary between _shit_ and _syphilis_. Oops, no they can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/79 "2005-08-13T23:14:52Z")
> [@](#): > > But not foolish enough to have done what those aboard the Rainbow Warrior did. I think I can live with that. They can’t, but I can. Ah, the “nyah nyah they’re dead and I’m alive” defense, perennial favorite of the outmatched. I win. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672/80 "2005-08-13T23:17:31Z")
As long as I live I hope that I never become amused by the death of others. If it is a fantasy such as dark humor in a movie – that I can understand. But what kind of human being finds even the death of one’s enemy _funny_? > [@](#): > > **Happy Scrappy Hero Pup** : Name a nation that does not do this. \ > [@](#): > > And to pretend that New Zealand would do otherwise in defense of its sheep-brains exports is disingenuous. Two of the weakest arguments ever: 1. Everyone else does it. 2. You would do it too under similar circumstances. > [@](#): > > **Greathouse** : It’s just that most of the shit they ever find themselves in is their own doing. Can’t the same be said for most heroes? It’s the choice that makes them heroes. > [@](#): > > **Greathouse** (I think): Well, announcing your intention to sail into the middle of a secured nuclear test site ain’t exactly begging to be left alone, either. They were certainly taking a chance, all right. It must have taken an enormous amount of courage to have planned to sail into that zone. They had no way of knowing if the French would have halted the test or not. _They were prepared to face the consequences of making that choice._ It was literally a crime that they were unable to make their stand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tucker-carlson-loves-france-_because_-they-bombed-greenpeace/316672.md?page=5)