# Tulsi Gabbard and the Science of Identity cult **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 9, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428 "2019-08-09T20:56:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/1 "2019-08-09T20:56:50Z")
Tulsi Gabbard grew up in a cult called "Science of Identity:, run by a guy named Chris Butler, who calls himself “Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa”. They pretend to be Hindu, but in fact, the cult revolves around Butler and the members’ worship of him. Gabbard went to SoI schools her entire life, and didn’t leave the cult until she joined the Army. She is still a member, and her husband, eight years her junior, is a member. One of her campaign officials, whose campaign business cards don’t list his position with the campaign organization, is the right hand man of Chris Butler. The cult is anti-gay and anti-Muslim, which explains a lot of Gabbard’s policies. > **[Tulsi Gabbard Had a Very Strange Childhood](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/tulsi-gabbard-2020-presidential-campaign.html)** > > Which may just help explain why she’s so totally out of place in today’s Democratic Party. And her long-shot race for the presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/2 "2019-08-09T21:00:32Z")
Which of Gabbard’s policies does it explain? Be specific. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/3 "2019-08-09T21:18:26Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Which of Gabbard’s policies does it explain? Be specific. Her policy of being a total whackjob. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/4 "2019-08-09T21:18:32Z")
There was a New Yorker article about this a while back. The detail I can’t unsee is that cult members would eat Butler’s toenail clippings in order to…absorb his holiness or something. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/5 "2019-08-09T21:29:20Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Her policy of being a total whackjob. Yeah…no. If this thread is going to be an actual discussion then I’m gonna need specifics. If it’s just gonna be a circle jerk then just come out and say so. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/6 "2019-08-09T21:39:03Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Yeah…no. If this thread is going to be an actual discussion then I’m gonna need specifics. If it’s just gonna be a circle jerk then just come out and say so. Already jerking it. I hope this has helped inform your decision on how to proceed. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/7 "2019-08-09T21:44:58Z")
Yep. I’m out. Enjoy…whatever this is. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/8 "2019-08-09T23:52:55Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > There was a New Yorker article about this a while back. The detail I can’t unsee is that cult members would eat Butler’s toenail clippings in order to…absorb his holiness or something. Eeeeeeew. Fingernail clipping I could get, but _toenail_ clippings? That’s just gross. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/9 "2019-08-09T23:57:53Z")
I haven’t bothered to read up on Gabbard. I’m pretty much “vote Blue no matter who” in 2020. In the unlikely event Gabbard gets the nomination, is she just a little better than Trump, or is even she a lot better than Trump? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/10 "2019-08-10T01:52:19Z")
So much of this sounds like rumor & gossip about a politician with an unusual religious background. I keep thinking, “How is this different from claiming that Ilhan Omar married her brother? Or that Barry Obama was part of Al Qaeda?” That said, I did find one piece on Medium by someone who claims to have been in Butler’s cult: > **[An Insiders Perspective on Tulsi Gabbard and her Guru](https://medium.com/@lalitamann/an-insiders-perspective-on-tulsi-gabbard-and-her-guru-e2650f0d09)** > > I was recently asked a question about US politics that is related to an issue very close to my heart. In the US there is a state… > [@](#): > > From a young child I remember one of the main features of my life was the lectures that were sent to us via tape for us to listen to. Basically these were 1 hour long sessions of Chris talking about his beliefs – how evil and out of control gay people were, how women were inferior and sub human and should be controlled by their husbands, how messed up and evil the outside world was, and how his relationship with God was so special, only he could lead you back to Godhead (Heaven) and that he had so much control over his existence on earth, he could choose the moment of his death. We worshipped him, loved him even. Another part of his teachings was that all life is an illusion, and because of that all relationships were an illusion. We were encouraged to not invest in any relationships other than with him, so we were in effect isolated from our parents who did their best to not love us as per his recommendation, and instead looked at him like a surrogate father/messiah figure. He was this imposing force in our life that we weren’t supposed to offend, which is frankly terrifying when you’re a small child. > > \ > > Not only would [Gabbard] she lose support for the position she holds, but she would lose her family, all of her friends, and this messiah/father figure if she opposed Chris Butler. She would be outcast from the only existence she has ever known. That’s a hugely powerful reason to continue to please Chris Butler without question. > > I truly feel for Tulsi. Hers is not an enviable position. I know because I spoke out about Chris Butler a few years ago, and my family cut off all contact from me. This has happened to every other person I know of who got out. I hope one day Tulsi does reject Chris and finds her own voice. She has done amazing things and it makes me sad to think that another victim who was been abused and manipulated her whole life isn’t able to have the career she’s worked so hard for, free and clear of Chris’s toxic influence. Maybe one day she will, but while he is her guru, his influence over her makes her dangerous and unreliable, because Chris is dangerous and unpredictable. So, yes, that’s scary if true. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/11 "2019-08-10T04:47:45Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Which of Gabbard’s policies does it explain? Be specific. Her anti-gay views, for one. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/12 "2019-08-10T05:28:26Z")
Her past anti-gay views. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/13 "2019-08-10T13:49:08Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > So much of this sounds like rumor & gossip about a politician with an unusual religious background. No, it is 100% true. [Tulsi Gabbard grew up in the cult ‘Science of Identity’](http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/tulsi-gabbard-2020-presidential-campaign.html), which is a rogue splinter of Hare Krisha, headed by a charismatic leader named Chris Butler. His followers call him Jagad Guru, or “teacher of the world.” Sect members describe remembering him thus: > [@](#): > > Everyone I spoke to who was raised in the group described, as children, hearing Butler call men “faggots” and women “cunts.” Gabbard has in the past opposed LGBT rights and abortion. I’ve read reports that she has fallen in line with Democrats on this, at least as far as policy and legislation, but she’s never personally repudiated her cult’s anti-gay views. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/14 "2019-08-10T14:08:35Z")
Gabbard is at best an eccentric candidate of maybe some entertainment value. But if she _was_ a serious candidate then … meh. Her disqualifications are what her views are, how she would govern (badly), and her lack of electability, not what religion she was raised in or even currently practices. You can find very very odd things in every religion. She would perhaps be the closest to being Trump bad (still not there) but not because of this. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/15 "2019-08-10T14:18:30Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > I haven’t bothered to read up on Gabbard. I’m pretty much “vote Blue no matter who” in 2020. In the unlikely event Gabbard gets the nomination, is she just a little better than Trump, or is even she a lot better than Trump? Personally I find some very concerning signs that her strings are pulled by whoever is pulling Trump’s (Russia and or Republicans). First, there is her strange hesitance to criticize Assad, a Russian ally. The ostensible reason is her anti-interventionist stance. Russia is of course a beneficiary of that stance, but it’s a reasonable stance in itself. However she seems strangely hesitant to call Assad a tyrant or a dictator or even an adversary. Second, she seems to have gone all-in on Republican and Russian talking points regarding Russian interference. Consider [this YouTube video](https://youtu.be/2rIQvhGw1EM?t=17) where she hits these notes: [ul] [li]The Mueller report revealed no collusion[/li][li]America needs to put it aside[/li][li]It’s good for America because a Trump indictment “could have led to a civil war”[/li][li]“We must move beyond this divisive issue”[/li][/ul] It’s remarkable enough for a Democrat to repeat Republican Party talking points before the ink is dry on the Mueller report, but what really raised my eyebrows was the implied but very clear threat that indicting Trump could lead to a civil war. This echoes Russian propaganda floated by people like Vladimir Zhirinovsky [suggesting that a vote against Trump is a vote for nuclear war](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-russian-trump/putin-ally-tells-americans-vote-trump-or-face-nuclear-war-idUSKCN12C28Q). I mean, wow. She does also thread the needle by suggesting America should see the report, that elections should be made secure against interference. This would seem to be anti-Republican/anti-Russian, but we all know this is a risk-free position given that the Republicans in power (Mitch McConnell, Bill Barr) are never going to let it happen. If your concern with Trump is that he’s a vulgar moronic narcissist, then Gabbard will be preferable to Trump. But looking past that superficial concern, Gabbard seems equally as dangerous as Trump. Perhaps more so, given that she’s more poised and polished and would presumably have more bipartisan support. If I were the party pulling Trump’s strings, for 2020 I’d tweak my strategy and run my puppet to the center. Gabbard seems to fit that pattern for now. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/16 "2019-08-10T14:36:19Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > There was a New Yorker article about this a while back. The detail I can’t unsee is that cult members would eat Butler’s toenail clippings in order to…absorb his holiness or something. Is there a more effective way to absorb someone’s holiness? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/17 "2019-08-10T14:41:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Gabbard is at best an eccentric candidate of maybe some entertainment value. But if she _was_ a serious candidate then … meh. > > Her disqualifications are what her views are, how she would govern (badly), and her lack of electability, not what religion she was raised in or even currently practices. > > You can find very very odd things in every religion. > > She would perhaps be the closest to being Trump bad (still not there) but not because of this. Like you, I don’t give her any odds of making very far into the primary season, but she’s dangerous in the sense that she could linger around just long enough to be noticed. One problem with the gargantuan Democratic field isn’t the sheer number of candidates themselves; it’s the possibility for the field to fragment into different little camps with very myopically-focused, obsessive, almost cult-like followers who refuse to vote for anyone outside of their political sect. We obviously have that danger with Bernie Sanders, but we could apply that to Andrew Yang and Tulsi Gabbard as well. It’s not necessarily clear how committed to beating Trump some of these voters really are. I suspect there still exists a not-so-insignificant “Screw the system, they all suck! Burn it all down” contingent. Sorry for the thread-creep ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/18 "2019-08-10T14:58:26Z")
Oh those people are there I’ve no doubt. But are they there any more or less because of the presence of these sorts of candidates? Or do more of them merely divide them up more into different camps? I’d suspect that come the general election and a Warren, Biden, or Harris as the nominee, the same fraction will either stay home or vote against Trump whether there have been three screw the system primary candidates or one … ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/19 "2019-08-12T12:14:02Z")
The antiwar candidate will always be slandered. It has been true for the entire history of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/20 "2019-08-12T13:51:55Z")
Yes, but we’re talking about the pro-war candidate here. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428.md?page=2)