# Tulsi Gabbard and the Science of Identity cult **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 9, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428 "2019-08-09T20:56:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/81 "2019-08-13T17:13:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Ah, here we go. As recently as [January 10 of this year](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hawaii-rep-tulsi-gabbard-accuses-fellow-democrats-of-religious-bigotry-in-questioning-judicial-nominee/2019/01/09/2c17ecdc-1467-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html), she was on record that people should be allowed to discriminate against homosexuals. > > So, did she have some massive change of heart sometime between January 10 and January 12? A lot of her fellow Hawaiians shared their aloha with her in those two days? Because it’s kind of hard to fight for the rights of homosexuals while you’re simultaneously calling anyone who fights for the rights of homosexuals a bigot. Did she call anyone who fights for the rights of homosexuals a bigot or just someone who is a religious bigot? Did you link to the wrong cite. Your cite shows her standing up to religious bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/82 "2019-08-13T17:21:13Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Did she call anyone who fights for the rights of homosexuals a bigot or just someone who is a religious bigot? > > Did you link to the wrong cite. Your cite shows her standing up to religious bigotry. Give up-go find another candidate that the Republicans can push over like a domino. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/83 "2019-08-13T17:32:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > …Did you link to the wrong cite. Your cite shows her standing up to religious bigotry. Hardly. It shows her to accuse those standing up against religious bigotry to be religious bigots, which is stupid and wrong. Opposition to bigotry does not make one “bigoted” against bigotry. “Buescher was asked about his public statements during his 2014 campaign, his position on issues such as abortion as well as his membership in the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic fraternal society. The organization has in recent years taken steps into the political realm, [funding anti-same-sex marriage initiatives](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/report-knights-of-columbus-and-allies-are-leading-funders-of-anti-gay-marriage-drives/2012/10/18/ef4c2f16-196d-11e2-ad4a-e5a958b60a1e_story.html?utm_term=.347b822b21bb) in a number of states.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/84 "2019-08-13T17:33:41Z")
What she calls “religious bigotry” is people saying that you shouldn’t be allowed to discriminate against gays. If your religion says that you must discriminate against gays, then your religion is bad, and people should speak out against it. **Czarcasm** , I don’t think **WillFarnaby** supports Gabbard because she’d be an easy opponent for Republicans. I think he supports her because she’s a bigoted, pro-war authoritarian, and **WillFarnaby** loves all of those things. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/85 "2019-08-13T17:46:43Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Given that aloha merch is found all over Hawaii, and is a major export of Hawaii, it seems weird to expect that someone who lives 4000 miles away should be more familiar with the “no actually” take on this. > How can you guarantee the intent of someone using a particular word? Are you friends with her? Do you possess a longer version of the statement that the rest of us haven’t seen? > > If a plain translation is “love and compassion” or “good karma” or something deep and reverential, then it sounds extremely patronizing and superficial to name-drop any of that in a policy position, rather than speak plainly about why one changed their minds. (Did she change her mind because of all the alohas? Could she share one particularly moving aloha with us? Do they have magical powers? Most critically, do alohas have a shelf life longer than an election? > > If the term doesn’t lend itself to plain translation, then it seems like she’s being opaque and evasive. > > If it’s a term that’s mainly known in Hawaii, then it’s odd she thought mainlanders would understand it. > > Anyway, my point isn’t to denigrate Hawaii or Aloha or anything, but rather to point out that using a magic word to cover a policy flip makes it look more like an elision strategy than a sincere statement of feeling. I think you are conflating your disdain for Gabbard with my observation that aloha is a concept that people in Hawaii genuinely take seriously. Make no mistake, I think Gabbard has dreadful beliefs, and she has zero business running for president. None of that negates the validity of aloha as an idea. . ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/86 "2019-08-13T17:49:30Z")
**Chronos** is correct. In up is down, black is white **WillFarnaby** world… Clinton was more Hawkish than Trump in 2016. NATO is a warlike organization as opposed to the most successful peacekeeping organization of all time. The North started the Civil war. And Lincoln is the worst president in the history of the USA. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/87 "2019-08-13T17:59:16Z")
Missed the edit window: what I really wanted to say is that my objection is to reducing aloha to “an over-priced coffee mug from the Honolulu Hilton gift shop.” Gabbard grew up in Hawaii, so it is virtually impossible that she doesn’t have a deeper understanding of the word. But believe me, I am NOT trying to defend her, or her remarks about the LGBTQ community, in any way, shape or form. . ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/88 "2019-08-13T18:52:31Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Aloha can mean goodbye, right? It can, especially when following a “Book ‘em, Danno” from Hawaii Five-O’s Detective Steve McGarrett. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/89 "2019-08-13T19:09:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So, what job in the National Guard does this anti-war pacifist do? I don’t back her candidacy, but I believe one can be anti-war without being a pacifist, especially given the US military’s experiences since 2001. Here’s Wiki on her military record; looks like she’s primarily a military police officer and trainer: [Tulsi Gabbard - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard#Military_service) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/90 "2019-08-13T20:24:25Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > **Chronos** is correct. > > In up is down, black is white **WillFarnaby** world… > > Clinton was more Hawkish than Trump in 2016. > NATO is a warlike organization as opposed to the most successful peacekeeping organization of all time. > The North started the Civil war. > And Lincoln is the worst president in the history of the USA. Knock it off. If you want to take shots at other posters, or bring up unrelated items to take shots at other posters, do it in the Pit. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/91 "2019-08-13T20:30:42Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I think you are conflating your disdain for Gabbard with my observation that aloha is a concept that people in Hawaii genuinely take seriously. I think you’re conflating disparagement of aloha-branded coffee cups with a disparagement of Hawaiian customs. So there we are. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/92 "2019-08-13T21:03:56Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The antiwar candidate will always be slandered. It has been true for the entire history of the United States. This thread is about Gabbard’s background and her membership in various organizations. This thread is not about which candidate is antiwar or not antiwar. Drop the war related hijack. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/93 "2019-08-13T21:28:25Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I think you’re conflating disparagement of aloha-branded coffee cups with a disparagement of Hawaiian customs. So there we are. Tee hee. I like it. Objection first: It’s hard to read **Miller’s** comment _maybe don’t don’t take your speech cues off an over-priced coffee mug from the Honolulu Hilton gift shop_ as anything but a characterization of the term “aloha” as a cheap tourist ploy. I would simply like to make it clear that the concept “aloha” doesn’t reduce to that, anymore than the Statue of Liberty’s symbolism reduces to nothing but cynical branding just because it is depicted on souvenir keychains. Conciliatory statement second: I don’t think for a minute that there is any deep-seated disparagement of Hawaiian culture intended by anyone in this thread. Ignorance, as long as it isn’t willful, is a lot more easily cured than bigotry. My only reason for posting is to combat possible ignorance on what somebody born and raised in Hawaii means by aloha. Was Gabbard sincere in her attempt to sound like she’s no longer anti-gay? I for one am doubtful. But was she purposefully reducing the issue to a hollow, meaningless phrase? I don’t think so. And now I’m done, in part because this isn’t a big deal and in part because I agree with a lot of what you’ve said in this thread, so I can’t imagine why I’d want to be arbitrarily argumentative. Aloha! . ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/94 "2019-08-14T15:57:40Z")
Just to be clear, it was the specific phrase “share their aloha” that I was questioning, not just “aloha” by itself. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/95 "2019-08-14T21:37:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Just to be clear, it was the specific phrase “share their aloha” that I was questioning, not just “aloha” by itself. Agreed, we all could have been clearer about that. I think most of us understand that ‘aloha’ is a culturally appropriated thing that Hawaiians respect in deeper ways than we appreciate. As I see it, that makes it even worse that Gabbard seems to be using it to bullshit her way through some very un-aloha words and actions in her not-too-distant past, the day after she declared her candidacy. ---
**Author:** ![ripopgome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a698b9/32.png) [@ripopgome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ripopgome)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/96 "2019-09-08T04:35:04Z")
Wow, she seems entirely unelectable at the national level, and her campaign logo is at best uninspired, at worst… what a nuke looks like going off at night. Who picks a yellow gradient to brown/black for a campaign logo?? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/97 "2019-09-08T16:36:20Z")
Lesbian I get, that’s from _Teenage Lesbian Stewardesses from Outer Space_, where they make out with each other rather than the cable guy. Gay I get, Bi means just flexible and/or indecisive. T means “trans”, which is a bit harder to get. “Queer” throws me off since it seems a separate category which is somehow distinct from any of the previous… but hey! consensual adults that do their own thing and don’t scare the horses, sure, fine and whatever. But what’s the “plus sign” about? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/98 "2019-09-08T19:01:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But what’s the “plus sign” about? As we as a society become more accepting of variation in sexual orientation and gender, and have a better of understanding of people’s unique differences, we’ve realized that there are a lot more possibilities than just the ones included in the words represented by LGBTQ. Rather than try to include every possibility, the plus allows for a wide variety, and also for new possibilities that may be identified going forward. Intersex, non-binary, pansexual, asexual and gender-fluid are a few of the terms that I am familiar with, but there are plenty of online lists of terms that can fit under the “plus” umbrella. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428/99 "2019-09-08T20:46:37Z")
I thought that Q was already meant to be an umbrella for all of the various non-mainstream variants of sexuality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tulsi-gabbard-and-the-science-of-identity-cult/838428.md?page=4)