# "Tuna fish" - why aren't any other kinds of fish redundant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 3, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124 "2009-11-03T02:05:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/41 "2009-11-03T17:40:57Z")
Yes, the substitution of the word “tuna” for the more traditional English word “tunny” to refer to the tuna-fish does seem to have been [influenced by American Spanish-speakers](http://www.agriculturalproductsindia.com/marine-food-supplies/marine-food-supplies-tuna.html), although apparently not with any reference to the tuna cactus: > [@](#): > > The word ‘tuna’ dates back to 1880 in print and its origin is attributed to Spanish American derivation of the English counterpart, tunny. No, the combination of the word “tuna” with the word “fish” by English speakers did **NOT** originate as an attempt to distinguish the tuna fish from the tuna cactus. Speakers of Germanic languages, including English, have been using that combination (“tunny-fish”, “Thunfisch”, etc.) for several centuries. The term “tonny fishe” appears, for example, in an English translation of Plutarch by Sir Thomas North published in 1579. > [@Harmonious Discord](#): > > The fruit and name has been around for centuries. The need for a distinction would have been generated in the southwest and moved out from there. Only one person selling the stuff canned would have needed to see a reason to add the word fish to the can for distinction and it would have spread. > > I’m saying it’s a viable reason for the usage and nobody has proven it’s not. It should be considered if someone looks for the origin. Your hypothesis is disproven by the evidence given above. English speakers have been commonly using the term “tunny fish” for tuna for centuries before English speakers became aware of the existence or name of the tuna cactus. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/42 "2009-11-03T17:45:22Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > Is it an Americanism? People here don’t add the extra word ‘fish’. It’s just a ‘tuna sandwich’, a ‘can of tuna’ etc. Yes. Cod is rendered the same way in American usage - _cod fish_, or sometimes even _codfish._ ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/43 "2009-11-03T18:18:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yes, the substitution of the word “tuna” for the more traditional English word “tunny” to refer to the tuna-fish does seem to have been [influenced by American Spanish-speakers](http://www.agriculturalproductsindia.com/marine-food-supplies/marine-food-supplies-tuna.html), although apparently not with any reference to the tuna cactus: It should be noted that the word in Spanish is _atun_. According to [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tuna), the etymology is: > [@](#): > > Etymology: American Spanish, alteration of Spanish atún, modification of Arabic tūn, from Latin thunnus, from Greek thynnos > Date: 1881 In today’s Spanish (at least, according to all dictionaries I have available), _tuna_ refers only to the fruit (although there are some slang usages), not the fish, which is _atún._ The fruit’s name is derived from Taino, and entered Spanish about 1555. But in English, it is much more commonly called prickly pear. Merriam-Webster gives the date of prickly pear as 1612. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/44 "2009-11-03T18:52:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes. Cod is rendered the same way in American usage - _cod fish_, or sometimes even _codfish._ No doubt to distinguish it from the codpeice. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/45 "2009-11-03T19:20:31Z")
Interestingly, Japanese also makes the distinction between what in U.S. English we’d call tuna vs. tuna fish. 鮪 \*maguro \*is used when talking about something like tuna sashimi, a tuna steak, etc. ツナ \*tsuna \*is canned tuna. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/46 "2009-11-03T21:36:45Z")
Imagine if we named all food that way. “Chicken bird salad.” “Beef quadruped burger.” “Lobster crustacean bisque.” “Peanut legume butter sandwich.” etc. Etymologically, the names _tuna_, _tunny_, _Thunnus_, _thynnus_, etc. may be derived from a word in a Semitic language, possibly Phoenician, that means some sort of sea monster. Compare the similar Hebrew word for ‘giant fish’, _[tanin](http://www.balashon.com/2006/11/tuna.html)_. It can also refer to a giant snake, and the related Arabic word _tinnin_ means ‘dragon’. The initial _a-_ in Spanish _atun_ comes from the Arabic definite article _al-_ which is assimilated to the following initial _t-_, so Arabic _al-tun_ is pronounced “at-tun,” and Spanish reduces the doubled consonant sounds to single consonants. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/47 "2009-11-03T21:39:49Z")
So what you’re saying is… tuna are killers? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/48 "2009-11-03T21:41:07Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > “Pea **nut** legume butter sandwich.” Ahem. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/49 "2009-11-03T21:46:23Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Well, tuna is a type of cactus, too. So if you didn’t specify tuna fish, you might mean tuna cactus. Or perhaps **Tirion Upon Tuna**. There’s a local deli here that serves that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/50 "2009-11-03T21:50:17Z")
> [@ShotFromGuns](#): > > > [@Johanna](#): > > > > “Peanut legume butter sandwich.” > > Ahem. But the so-called pea-nut is actually a legume rather than a nut, so adding “legume” to the name is corrective as well as redundant! Like “crawfish crustacean bisque”, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/51 "2009-11-03T21:52:23Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Or perhaps **Tirion Upon Tuna**. There’s a local deli here that serves that. Do they accept payment in Tolkiens? ') ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/52 "2009-11-03T21:54:28Z")
In Canada we do not say “tuna fish.” The term is “tuna.” I am completely aware that in the U.S. you use the redundant term. What sayest the rest of the planet: fish or no fish? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/53 "2009-11-03T22:09:52Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > What sayest the rest of the planet: fish or no fish? Well, as I think I may have mentioned before, the Germans say “Thunfisch”, while the Swedes say “tonfisk”, the Icelanders say “túnfiskur”, and the Danes and Norwegians say “tunfisk”. Moreover, the rest of the English-speaking world used to say “tunny fish”, and they still do sometimes, so you needn’t get up on your high horse-mackerel 😉 about the “redundancy” of the US name. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/54 "2009-11-03T23:04:56Z")
[It even has it’s own song.](http://www.greaseman.org/sounds/jasonz/815-TunaFishSong.mp3) ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/55 "2009-11-04T00:02:12Z")
I don’t know much about fish, but does Porky the Pig count? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/56 "2009-11-04T00:10:30Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [It even has it’s own song.](http://www.greaseman.org/sounds/jasonz/815-TunaFishSong.mp3) Tuna Grease! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/57 "2009-11-04T01:37:12Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > I don’t know much about fish, but does Porky the Pig count? No, but [Pigmeat Markham](http://blog.wfmu.org/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/21/pigmeat_markham_2.jpg) does. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/58 "2009-11-04T03:41:23Z")
In Thai, the word “fish” is appended onto every type of fish, only at the beginning, not the end. The word is _pla_, and “tuna fish” is _pla tuna_ (they use the English word “tuna”). But _pla_ is stuck on every type of fish – _pla_-this and _pla_-that. The same with all birds (_nok_). It’s not a parrot, but a “parrot bird” (_nok kaew_). (That actually translates literally to “glass bird.”) ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/59 "2009-11-04T15:45:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But the so-called pea-nut is actually a legume rather than a nut, so adding “legume” to the name is corrective as well as redundant! Well, yes, but Ye Olden Dayes people didn’t know that. So peanut is already kind of doubly including its type in its name (It’s a pea! It’s a nut!). > [@Leaffan](#): > > In Canada we do not say “tuna fish.” The term is “tuna.” So how do you distinguish between the canned/processed kind and the fresh kind? > [@](#): > > What sayest the rest of the planet: fish or no fish? As I’ve observed upthread, Japanese uses separate terms for canned vs. fresh, but neither of them explicitly includes the word for “fish.” > [@jakesteele](#): > > I don’t know much about fish, but does Porky the Pig count? Smokey Bear? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124/60 "2009-11-04T16:42:04Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > So how do you distinguish between the canned/processed kind and the fresh kind? I dunno. Tuna is tuna. I suppose we might use tuna steak, or tuna fillet on a menu or something, but a tuna sandwich is a tuna sandwich. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tuna-fish-why-arent-any-other-kinds-of-fish-redundant/516124.md?page=4)