# Tunnels under Irish sea with underground roundabout at Isle of Man **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 26, 2022, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169 "2022-02-26T23:21:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/21 "2022-02-28T14:46:08Z")
Johnson should have invited Elon Musk to construct hyperloop tunnels under the Isle of Man. But I suppose Musk is more focused on constructing a hyperloop on Mars, and besides, there’s only room for one massive ego per fantasy project. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/22 "2022-02-28T15:08:14Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > I don’t see how this is feasible engineering-wise. It never was, and it’s officially been scrapped. > **[Boris Johnson’s Scotland-Northern Ireland tunnel plans axed](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/14/boris-johnson-scotland-northern-ireland-tunnel-plans-axed)** > > Construction of ‘world’s most stupid tunnel’ scrapped as Treasury clamps down on spending But it should never have got as far as it did - it was obviously bollocks from the get-go. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/23 "2022-02-28T17:16:45Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > It never was, and it’s officially been scrapped. Which presumably means there was a feasibility study carried out. Someone got paid to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/24 "2022-02-28T17:29:18Z")
Remember that as Mayor of London, Boris Johnson spent £40m of taxpayer money on a “garden bridge” across the Thames that never got past the vague design phase. But I’m sure the money made it into a few of his friends’ pockets. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/25 "2022-02-28T17:37:17Z")
Boris is the ideas man and just can’t fathom why all these people keep saying his idea won’t work. This will solve the EU-Ireland border, tada! Why oh why has nobody thought of this before? It’d be endearing if he were actually a toddler rather than acting like one. And people keep going along with it. He’s like the kid from It’s a Good Life. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/26 "2022-02-28T18:59:39Z")
Here is the report on the tunnel/bridge. It mentions an option for a link via the Isle of Man, but dismisses it because of cost and environmental concerns. I guess they have asked for another report to look into these options in a bit more detail. I’m sure they have lots of material already gathered to put into another report for the appropriate consultancy fee. > **[Fixed transport link between Great Britain and Northern Ireland: technical...](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fixed-transport-link-between-great-britain-and-northern-ireland-technical-feasibility)** > > Assesses the feasibility of a fixed link between Northern Ireland and Great Britain as part of the union connectivity review. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/27 "2022-02-28T20:05:02Z")
That article says it "had a price tag of about £15bn " …and the rest ! [HS2](https://www.hs2.org.uk/what-is-hs2/) started at £20bn and is now nearer £100bn ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/28 "2022-03-01T04:28:29Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Which presumably means there was a feasibility study carried out. Someone got paid to do that. Actually it didn’t cost much. The study was four words long: “No. Just _no_, FFS” ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/29 "2022-03-01T04:33:15Z")
I doubt it’s impossible from an engineering perspective, if money is no object. After all, the world’s longest road tunnel is [26km long and has only one ventilation shaft 18km](https://www.roadtraffic-technology.com/projects/laerdal-tunnel/) from one end. The obvious solution is a side tunnel that carries the necessary high airflow, with cross tunnels to the main traffic tunnel at intervals. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/30 "2022-03-01T05:26:30Z")
Have you tried driving backwards, or driving from the front? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/31 "2022-03-01T07:22:50Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > He’s like the kid from It’s a Good Life. I’m from an older generation. To me, he’s Just William, after he’s dismantled the clock and doesn’t know how to put it together again. Or Billy Bunter, perpetually expecting a postal order ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/32 "2022-03-01T09:30:28Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Actually it didn’t cost much. The study was four words long: > > “No. Just _no_ , FFS” I think this would be missing an opportunity for some other Etonian to siphon cash out of government funds. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/33 "2022-03-01T12:38:37Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > > [@Princhester](#): > > > > “No. Just _no_ , FFS” > > I think this would be missing an opportunity for some other Etonian to siphon cash out of government funds. They need the other Etonian to expand the acronym… ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/34 "2022-03-01T16:35:26Z")
I wonder if this is supposed to help with solving the outstanding Brexit Nortbern Ireland protocol conundrum. The bridge or tunnel between the UK and Northern Ireland is a bribe to politicians in Northern Ireland. Big ticket infrastructure projects are always well recieved by Unionists. Especially if they help to integrate Northern Ireland with the UK economy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/35 "2022-03-02T00:04:04Z")
It is not remotely plausible that Johnson or anyone else in the UK government is considering this unattributed bullshit. I don’t believe this is even spin on the part of the government. The **shortest** leg, between County Down and the Isle of Man, is at least 35 miles, which happens to be how long the [longest such crossing in the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong%E2%80%93Zhuhai%E2%80%93Macau_Bridge) is. You’d also have to build lots of motorways in Northern Ireland, Man and probably England. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/36 "2022-03-02T00:18:03Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Might make more sense without the Scotland tunnel. AFACT, that part of Scotland is pretty low population. Or they’d also have to build an expressway from the tunnel up to Glasgow. But even with that, it’s probably not viable. You might have done a little more research before making this assertion. Obviously it isn’t just the people of Wigtownshire and South Ayrshire who use the Scotland to Northern Ireland route. There are 12 big car ferries, run by two competing companies, running in each direction each day between Cairnryan and Larne/Belfast. **All** traffic going between the whole of Ireland and the whole of Scotland uses this route - that’s an area with about 11 million people, with travellers making journeys of up to 600 miles or sometimes even more. Additionally, lots of passenger and commercial traffic from England uses this route as it is much shorter and cheaper than the ferry routes from Liverpool/Lancashire, many people prefer to do most of the distance by road. The roads between Stranraer/Cairnryan and the rest of Great Britain are indeed inadequate - both the A75 towards England and the A77 towards central Scotland need improvement, and the fact that that isn’t happening shows that the UK government isn’t really serious about any of this. (The A77 would generally be the Scottish government’s responsibility, and there are some major geographical challenges to building a bigger road). ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/37 "2022-03-02T01:54:14Z")
> [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > Obviously it isn’t just the people of Wigtownshire and South Ayrshire who use the Scotland to Northern Ireland route. > […] > The roads between Stranraer/Cairnryan and the rest of Great Britain are indeed inadequate - both the A75 towards England and the A77 towards central Scotland need improvement, and the fact that that isn’t happening shows that the UK government isn’t really serious about any of this. I think you may have missed my point, although you kinda made it yourself. Admittedly, I didn’t do a great job of communicating it. My point was that the tunnel to Scotland would not be worthwhile without a much better road connection to the more populous parts of Scotland. So even though the Scotland tunnel is the shortest of the project, it’s not just a tunnel; it’s a tunnel+motorway. And since, like much of Scotland, it’s not the easiest terrain to build through, it may actually be the most expensive segment of the project. So assuming this goes forward (which it probably won’t), that segment may be dropped or at least delayed until the rest is up and running. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/38 "2022-03-02T02:31:26Z")
Scotland may be tough terrain to build a road through, but it’s not remotely nearly as tough terrain as seabed is. But yeah, if they were serious, they’d start by improving the roads to the existing ferries. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/39 "2022-03-02T05:24:36Z")
Forgive me if I’m treating sheer fantasy like an earnest but flawed proposal, but 1. why a road tunnel instead of a rail tunnel that won’t involve ventilating for hundreds of internal-combustion engines? 2. why via the Isle of Man when, unless I’m reading the map wrong, each leg (British mainland-Man and Man-Ireland) seems longer than the entire crossing in the vicinity of the existing ferry crossing at Cairnryan-Belfast? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169/40 "2022-03-02T05:45:11Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > why via the Isle of Man when, unless I’m reading the map wrong, each leg (British mainland-Man and Man-Ireland) seems longer than the entire crossing in the vicinity of the existing ferry crossing at Cairnryan-Belfast? Johnson’s plan A was a more direct road bridge. It was pointed out that this wouldn’t work: > **[Bombs dumped in Irish Sea make bridge plan 'too dangerous'](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/14/bombs-dumped-in-irish-sea-make-bridge-plan-too-dangerous)** > > Experts pour cold water on Boris Johnson’s idea for Scotland-Northern Ireland link > The most direct route for Boris Johnson’s idea of a 28-mile bridge would involve crossing Beaufort’s Dyke, a trench that contains more than 1m tonnes of unexploded munitions, plus chemical weapons and radioactive waste. [![](https://i.postimg.cc/rw5M0Fxz/bridge.jpg) ](https://i.postimg.cc/rw5M0Fxz/bridge.jpg) The undersea tunnels are longer, but avoid Beaufort’s Dyke – but they are even more of a wild, impractical fantasy than the road bridge. What will Plan C be? 😁 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tunnels-under-irish-sea-with-underground-roundabout-at-isle-of-man/960169.md?page=3)