# Turkey in the EU **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2005, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565 "2005-10-03T13:11:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565/41 "2005-10-05T22:22:59Z")
I too am convinced that the main reason for the opposition to Turkey the Union amongst the general public in France at least is the fear of being overrun by a wawe of job-stealing muslim immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565/42 "2005-10-06T18:12:44Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I can think of one European country where the head of state is required by law to belong to a particular religion and is prohibited from marrying outside their religion. If that’s not a violation of separation of church and state I don’t know what is. If you’re thinking of the U.K. I’m not entirely sure you’re correct. The monarch is prevented from marrying a Catholic, but I’m not sure that they’re not allowed to be an atheist or a Moslem. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565/43 "2005-10-06T19:14:19Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Vatican City isn’t a member of the European Union. They’d never get in with their human rights record, being an absolute monarchy and not allowing minority religions to be practiced. Then why did they even consider putting the pope’s picture on the euro? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565/44 "2005-10-06T19:28:26Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I too am convinced that the main reason for the opposition to Turkey the Union amongst the general public in France at least is the fear of being overrun by a wawe of job-stealing muslim immigrants. Is it possible to admit a country to the EU without open borders? As I understand it, citizens of the older EU member states are allowed to travel, live and work anywhere in the EU, but citizens of the newly admitted states of Eastern Europe do not yet have that privilege. (NAFTA, by contrast, is a trade association only. So we in the U.S. get the benefits, if any\*, of free trade with Mexico without having to open our borders to Mexicans. Same with CAFTA.) \*See this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=315669](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=315669) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565/45 "2005-10-06T20:07:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is it possible to admit a country to the EU without open borders? As I understand it, citizens of the older EU member states are allowed to travel, live and work anywhere in the EU, but citizens of the newly admitted states of Eastern Europe do not yet have that privilege. Yes, it’s possible temporarily. But not indefinitely (which would defeat the purpose, anyway : in this case, Turkey coul a well just get some associated country status). People won’t be satisfied with a “don’t worry, borders will stay closed for 5 years”. I would mention that the Turkey issue, despite having be discussed for so long, only begins to appear on average frenchman’s radar (mostly since the referendum about the constitution, when it was mentionned by many politicians), possibly because Turkish immigration isn’t very important in France (Contrarily to, say, Germany). I would mention too that many french politicians are opposed to Turkey joining the Union. And it seems to me that they aren’t following their base by doing so, but at the contrary that they’re in the process of creating a popular worry. In the french right-wing, for instance, Chirac is quite isolated as a supporter of Turkey. France might become a new stumbling block for Turkey after the next elections. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565/46 "2005-10-06T21:04:17Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > . . . possibly because Turkish immigration isn’t very important in France (Contrarily to, say, Germany). 😕 Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565/47 "2005-10-06T21:35:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Why not? Because Turkish immigration to France is actually not that high, either in terms of pure numbers or as a percentage of the population. By contrast, Turkish immigration to Germany is pretty large. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565/48 "2005-10-06T23:57:48Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Because Turkish immigration to France is actually not that high, either in terms of pure numbers or as a percentage of the population. By contrast, Turkish immigration to Germany is pretty large. Yeah, I know, that’s what **clairobscur** was saying – but why? What makes Germany more attractive/accommodating than France to Turkish immigrants? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565/49 "2005-10-07T09:23:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What makes Germany more attractive/accommodating than France to Turkish immigrants? In the 60s/early 70s Turkish workers were actively recruited to come to Germany (because the supply of workers from Italy and Spain, the main previous recruitment countries, apparently wasn’t enough). Nowadays it’s the large preexistent Turkish-ethnic community which a) confers the opportunity to immigrate as a spouse of a resident, and b) obviates the necessity of learning the new country’s language. ---
**Author:** ![hronis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c57346/32.png) [@hronis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hronis)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565/50 "2005-10-07T11:05:07Z")
I am greek, and the relations between Greece and Turkey have never really been that friendly. The Cypriot problem did not help matters either. Greeks normally gather in coffee bars, restaurants, cake shops after work and spend a great deal of their time debating everything, from politics and religion to the meaning of life. As you can imagine the EU-Turkey issue is on everyones lips, and a lot of heated (we are greek) arguments arise. The impression that I get from the majority of people is that religion is a major block into people accepting them. The Ottoman empire had occupied Greece for over 400 years and history (greek version) paints them in a not very complimentary way…some of executionstyles included skinning alive, skewing to death. I also believe that other nations that were under the ottomans have similar experiences. It might seemlike a long time ago, (200) but to a lot of people it happened yesterdy. My personal pinion is that it is to everyones benefit if Turkey was admitted to the EU. some of my reasons are: a) it would force Turkey to westernise their laws b) as a co-member of the EU security in the medeterenian would increase. c) The tension that exists now with air space violations will disapear. d) the solution to the cypriot problem will be solved easier from within. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-in-the-eu/324565.md?page=2)