# Turkey intervenes..pandora's box is opening. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 23, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503 "2003-03-23T04:48:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/1 "2003-03-23T04:48:51Z")
[http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030322.wturk0322/BNStory/International](http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030322.wturk0322/BNStory/International) This is just the tip of the iceberg. America is in store for much trouble. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/2 "2003-03-23T04:55:06Z")
I’m sitting here wondering why the US hasn’t dropped an airborne division or two into Kurd territory. We’re already coordinated with them, right? This could get ugly. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/3 "2003-03-23T04:57:45Z")
Now we know why Turkey didn’t want American troops in Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/4 "2003-03-23T05:03:23Z")
Now we know why Turkey didn’t want American troops in Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/5 "2003-03-23T05:32:12Z")
Can’t be. America has Turkey’s balls in its pocket. No way the Turks pull this shit. No fuckin’ way. But if I’m wrong…holy shit! ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/6 "2003-03-23T05:32:34Z")
As I noted in another thread, under the Geneva convention as an occupying nation, we are under a legal obligation to protect the local populace from invading forces. Of course, if we piss all over the Geneva convention, it’s not like anyone can stop us. ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/7 "2003-03-23T05:40:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*As I noted in another thread, under the Geneva convention as an occupying nation, we are under a legal obligation to protect the local populace from invading forces. Of course, if we piss all over the Geneva convention, it’s not like anyone can stop us. \*\* Of course, we’re not an occupying nation yet. If the Turks really are intent on causing some carnage up there, I wonder if they’re thinking along those lines though. Like, maybe it’s better to be in battle before Iraq becomes a U.S. occupied territory. Actually, the scarier item in that article was that Iran now has forces up there too. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/8 "2003-03-23T05:46:09Z")
This line is rich: > [@](#): > > Yesterday, Richard Boucher, spokesman for the U.S. State Department, said Washington was “opposed to unilateral action by Turkey or by any party in northern Iraq.” Maybe Washington can lend Turkey some COWs(Coalition Of Willing). ---
**Author:** ![presidebt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@presidebt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/presidebt)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/9 "2003-03-23T05:53:18Z")
Wait, wait, wait. I understand Turkey and the US came to an understanding that the US could launch and refuel its planes in Turkey if they didn’t say anything about Turkey being present in Northern Iraq _just_ to make sure the Kurds or other Iraq’s needed to flea across the border. This was and still is a real problem for Turkey, beginning in Desert Storm, when thousands of Iraqi’s, mostly Kurds, feld to Turkey. I understand that it wasn’t the optimal agreement for either side, and the US balked long, hard and loud about it, but eventually agreed. I applaud Turkey for insisting that we consider their best interests in addition to our own. However, I do see this as a move that could be potentially disastrous, especially given this administration’s penchant for retaliation. Also, Saudi Arabia and Syria have both declared this an “illegitimate war” and have said the US should stop. World War III is a real possibilty now, which is sad because it used to be unthinkable. ---
**Author:** ![presidebt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@presidebt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/presidebt)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/10 "2003-03-23T05:59:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by presidebt \* > \*\* _just_ to make sure the Kurds or other Iraq’s needed to flea across the border. \*\* Oops, “just to make sure Kurds and Iraqi’s didn’t cross the border, should they feel they need to.” I’ve really gotta start using that preview option. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/11 "2003-03-23T06:18:44Z")
Do I have this right? Turkey, acting unilaterally in its own best national interests, is a threat to international peace and stability? ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/12 "2003-03-23T15:03:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by presidebt \* > to make sure the Kurds or other Iraq’s needed to **flea** across the border. I just get this vivid Image of a bunch of Iraqi refugees jumping 30 feet in the air to get across big fences that say “Immigrants keep out.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/13 "2003-03-23T15:10:35Z")
Latest news is America is moving _toot damn sweet_ to slam a lid on this potential disaster. For reasons of humanity, let us wish them total and uncomplicated success. As much as I might wish the Admin the embarrassment and scorn thier ham-fisted policies deserve, the Kurds have paid far more than thier share. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/14 "2003-03-23T15:15:03Z")
Could’ve sworn I’ve seen a news ticker this morning on MSNBC that reported Turkish forces are _not_, in fact, in northern Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/15 "2003-03-23T15:25:53Z")
[Turkey denies it](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2874635.stm). Who knows? I’m all for nipping this in the bud, sharpish like. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/16 "2003-03-23T15:39:23Z")
But Tommy Franks has another opinion on the matter: > [@](#): > > _[Central Command Press Briefing](http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/transcripts/20030322.htm)_ > Q Turkish forces – Turkish forces that are reported to be encroaching into Iraq. What is the degree of complication? > > GEN. FRANKS: I’ve seen much about that. And actually I believe that the Turkish formations that we see in northern Iraq are very light formations. We see them move in and out of Turkey. There is continuing discussion I know at the political level to decide exactly how much of that is acceptable and so forth. And I guess I would say that that’s sort of above my pay grade. Obviously, we have consultations. We have contact. I have one of my general officers in Turkey working with the Turks and have had him there for some time. So we are able to maintain coordination, and I believe the necessary cooperation with the Turkish government up to this point. I understand we have special ops in the region. Can anyone speculate as to why we haven’t put in paratroopers in big numbers up there? ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/17 "2003-03-23T16:07:19Z")
So, should World War III start, and Turkey is the hated enemy, y’all gonna sit down for Walking Bird next Thanksgiving? Or maybe Freedom Bird? ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/18 "2003-03-23T16:08:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AZCowboy \* > \*\*I understand we have special ops in the region. Can anyone speculate as to why we haven’t put in paratroopers in big numbers up there? \*\* But what exactly would/could we do militarily if the Turks decide come hell or high water they are going to “occupy/defend” against Kurdish immigration or even Kurdish attacks? Just like the U.S. has decided that in ‘self-defense’ it needs to occupy Iraq, what exactly can we say or do if the Turks decide that in ‘self-defense’ they need to insert themselves into northern Iraq? This administration would have to be insane to actually attack Turkish forces. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/19 "2003-03-23T16:14:48Z")
Don’t get me wrong - I think if we have to choose between the Turks and the Kurds - the Kurds lose. I see no possible chance that US forces would engage Turkish forces. But the pretext of Turkey’s involvement is fear of mass refugees into Turkey, causing political unrest. If the US had a substantial presense in Northern Iraq, it may quell the “anxiety” among the Kurds, and reduce any mass of refugees. Plus, it would make Turkey much less likely to feel the need to send in significant ground troops. It seems that inaction on the part of the US only contributes to the problem. ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/20 "2003-03-23T16:22:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AZCowboy \* > \*\*Don’t get me wrong - I think if we have to choose between the Turks and the Kurds - the Kurds lose. > > I see no possible chance that US forces would engage Turkish forces. > > But the pretext of Turkey’s involvement is fear of mass refugees into Turkey, causing political unrest. If the US had a substantial presense in Northern Iraq, it may quell the “anxiety” among the Kurds, and reduce any mass of refugees. > > Plus, it would make Turkey much less likely to feel the need to send in significant ground troops. > > It seems that inaction on the part of the US only contributes to the problem. \*\* Good points. And I do hope that the Turkish government is responsible enough to not try and take advantage of the situation. Long term I think they’d have much more to lose than gain. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503.md?page=2)