# Turkey intervenes..pandora's box is opening. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 23, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503 "2003-03-23T04:48:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/21 "2003-03-23T18:03:18Z")
I heard a radio interview with a Kurdish leader yesterday, and he said they weren’t worried about Turkey’s incursions - it involved less than 1,000 men, and was not any sort of invasion force or a force capably of occupying and holding ground. He even said that the action was part of an agreement the Kurds had with Turkey. It might have been something like, “Let us send forces in to observe and help maintain stability, or we’ll send in LOTS of forces to ensure it…” ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/22 "2003-03-23T18:09:32Z")
And I have heard numerous reports from the Kurds that suggest if the Turks come across, they will resist. Which is correct? The near future may hold the answer… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/23 "2003-03-23T18:15:39Z")
Trouble is, there are basicly two sets of Kurds, politicly speaking. As luck would have it, they hate each others guts. Oh, goody! IIRC, both have made deals with the Iraqis and the Turks, on seperate occassions, in order to wipe each other out. So if you see one Kurdish leader, you are getting precisely one half of the story. So, oddly enough, if you see a “Kurdish leader” say he welcomes his Turkish brothers with open arms, that probably means the other “Kurdish leader” is getting ready to fight the Turks tooth-and-nail. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/24 "2003-03-23T18:25:52Z")
I’m just hearing on the news that the Turkey situation is no longer a major worry, because the U.S. has airlifted ‘massive’ numbers of troops into Northern Iraq - using Turkish airspace. And those forces have pledged to defend the Kurds (and probably also pledged to protect the Turkish border). So it looks like Turkey is going to stay out of this. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/25 "2003-03-23T18:30:05Z")
I haven’t seen those reports, but I am encourage if it is indeed true. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/26 "2003-03-23T18:33:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > Trouble is, there are basicly two sets of Kurds, politicly speaking. More than that ;). Even in Iraq. Ansar al-Islam is primarily a Kurdish group for instance, a direct descendant of the old IMK ( Islamic Movement in Kurdistan ). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/27 "2003-03-23T19:10:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*I’m just hearing on the news that the Turkey situation is no longer a major worry, because the U.S. has airlifted ‘massive’ numbers of troops into Northern Iraq - using Turkish airspace. And those forces have pledged to defend the Kurds (and probably also pledged to protect the Turkish border). So it looks like Turkey is going to stay out of this. \*\* For now. How long are they staying? A week? A month? A year? Ought to make a dandy recruiting tool. “Be all you can be! Get sent to squat in the Godforsaken Desert for a couple of years, keeping two bunches of rabid half-wits from killing each other! Sign up TODAY!” ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/28 "2003-03-23T19:15:59Z")
Alright. **elucidator** , while we have generally been on the same side in these debates, I think you’re going off a bit too far here. While the situation in Northern Iraq (which isn’t desert, btw) has the potential of a powder keg, I can hardly think of any better use of US military resources than to keep the peace there (given the context). While the Kurds may be entrenched in a violent idealogical struggle, referring to them as “rabid half-wits” is not justified. If I am going to harass **Sam** on his hyperbole, I must do the same with you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/29 "2003-03-23T19:33:59Z")
I can’t think of any better use for our military either. Not my point. Point is, we can’t stay there forever. And if we have a plan, I haven’t heard it, beyond the political fantasy that a federated Iraq will somehow be conjured up out of exreme sectarian hatreds. We are assured we will not stay one day longer than necessary. I find that somewhat lacking in specificity. But I take your scolding to heart. I hereby solemnly apologize to all Kurdish Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/30 "2003-03-23T19:53:28Z")
> [@](#): > > We are assured we will not stay one day longer than necessary. I find that somewhat lacking in specificity. Well…they are just as specific in telling us how much this war is going to cost. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/31 "2003-03-24T17:33:22Z")
From everything I’ve heard, the borders of Iraq were drawn arbitrarily back in the day. The Kurds are a huge nation without a state. I have also heard that the US doesn’t want to see an independent Kurd nation form as a result of this war. Why not? What’s the harm in a new Kurdistan formed in northern Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/32 "2003-03-24T17:40:50Z")
It ain’t about the Kurds wishes for a nation of their own, or selling them out, **Bearflag70** , it’s about the oil fields up there. Can’t let them fall under the control of people we don’t control, ya know. Keeping them divided and stateless works fine. To think Dubya was going to pay the Turks $32 billion (with a b) of our money to do what they’re doing … ---
**Author:** ![regnad\_kcin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@regnad\_kcin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/regnad_kcin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/33 "2003-03-24T17:41:56Z")
This is one of the reasons Turkey didnt want American troops in their country. But lets not forget that 95% of the Turkish people are opposed to this war. Thats NINETY-FIVE percent. Turkey is a democracy. You can bet your ass that if 95% of American citizens were opposed to this war, it wouldnt be happening. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/34 "2003-03-24T17:43:13Z")
It will create instability within our ally, Turkey. The ethnic Kurds span parts of Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. If an independent Kurdistan is formed in Northern Iraq, it will likely generate separatist movements in Turkey (and perhaps Syria and Iran) that could lead to civil war(s). And your right, I heard a report that said the Kurds were the largest single ethnic group in the world without a homeland. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/35 "2003-03-24T17:44:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* > \*\*More than that ;). Even in Iraq. Ansar al-Islam is primarily a Kurdish group for instance, a direct descendant of the old IMK ( Islamic Movement in Kurdistan ). > > - Tamerlane \*\* Don’t get Tamerlane started!😉 I nominate you as special envoy to the region. 😃 As for the US response, I think the US had to make it clear to Turkey that letting them slice a chunk off Iraq was not acceptable, given the unique position the coalition and US have with respect to defense of Iraqi integrity in international law and regional stability. Basically, if I may be so coarse, “Turks, back that ass up.” If we did not, I guess the precedent would be set for Iran, Syria, Kuwait, and such to make a grab for nice real estate also. > [@](#): > > **e:** We are assured we will not stay one day longer than necessary. I find that somewhat lacking in specificity. At least it’s honest! ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503/36 "2003-03-24T17:59:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bearflag70 \* > \*\*From everything I’ve heard, the borders of Iraq were drawn arbitrarily back in the day. The Kurds are a huge nation without a state. I have also heard that the US doesn’t want to see an independent Kurd nation form as a result of this war. > > Why not? What’s the harm in a new Kurdistan formed in northern Iraq? \*\* Well, for one thing, if the Iraqi Kurds get a state, the Turkish Kurds are going to want one too, or at least want to join their Iraqi brothers. And this the Turkish government is willing to go to war to stop. Iran comes into the mix here as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-intervenes-pandoras-box-is-opening/163503.md?page=1)