# Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 24, 2015, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418 "2015-11-24T11:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/61 "2015-11-25T15:56:38Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > Man-I can hardly wait-those burqua-bikinis on iranian beaches! I am told they have separate swimming areas for men and women. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/62 "2015-11-25T16:04:23Z")
**Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane.** I knew there was a reason I liked Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/63 "2015-11-25T18:05:25Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Isn’t protecting their territory from foreign intrusions enough? A 17 second intrusion? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/64 "2015-11-25T18:07:36Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > I am sure that Vladimir Putin would like to see Turkey break up-that way, he can support the Syrian state and also provide a new country for the Kurds. Face it, Kemal Ataturk’s experiment was going to fail anyway-reactionary Islam has doomed it. get set for a reshuffling of the deck in the ME-a whole new crop of nation-states are coming! Or maybe just one big one. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/65 "2015-11-25T18:21:24Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > You are forgetting that Turkey has been supporting ISIS and bombing the Kurds fighting them. > KIck Turkey out of NATO. You have a cite for that? I know they’ve been bombing kurds but I don’t see where they have been supporting ISIS. I thought they were supporting Turkmen Syrians, are these Turkmen Syrians actually part of ISIS? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/66 "2015-11-25T18:30:23Z")
From July: [Links between Turkey and ISIS are now undeniable](http://www.businessinsider.com/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/67 "2015-11-25T18:36:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A 17 second intrusion? Is there anything close to the border to shoot at or photograph? How long was Flight 007 in Russian airspace as I comparison? I am too lazy to look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/68 "2015-11-25T18:40:02Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You have a cite for that? I know they’ve been bombing kurds but I don’t see where they have been supporting ISIS. I thought they were supporting Turkmen Syrians, are these Turkmen Syrians actually part of ISIS? I think they’re one of the “moderate” rebels. Which means they’re probably affiliated with al Qaida, altho it’s not polite to mention this, because it leads to uncomfortable questions like, “How are these guys supposed to be an improvement over the Assad regeim?” and “Why do we consider these people to be our allies, again?” FWIW, if you look at the [Wikipedia page for the shootdown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown) (because of course there’s one), there’s a small… panhandle?.. jutting down into Syrian territory, and this is apparently where the Russian jet is supposed to have intruded. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/69 "2015-11-25T18:56:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Is there anything close to the border to shoot at or photograph? How long was Flight 007 in Russian airspace as I comparison? I am too lazy to look it up. It’s not a very useful comparison. You can look at the wiki article of the incident if you overcome your laziness. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/70 "2015-11-25T19:04:19Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I think they’re one of the “moderate” rebels. Which means they’re probably affiliated with al Qaida, altho it’s not polite to mention this, because it leads to uncomfortable questions like, “How are these guys supposed to be an improvement over the Assad regeim?” and “Why do we consider these people to be our allies, again?” If you think the entire Syrian opposition is either ISIL or affiliated with Al Qaeda, you’re simply mistaken. The opposition includes a wide range of political affiliations, from extremist and terrifying to small militias who seem to have no agenda other than protecting their neighborhood. Complicating an easy narrative that you suggest is that sometimes moderate and extremist groups form temporary alliances, such as to coordinate attacks on the Syrian military. The idea that the opposition is comprised of terrorists is nothing more than Assad propaganda that some people, for whatever reason, have embraced. There is news reporting that the First Coastal Brigade, which is associated with the non-extremist Free Syrian Army, was involved in the subsequent attack on the Russian search and rescue helicopter. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/71 "2015-11-25T19:12:10Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s not a very useful comparison. You can look at the wiki article of the incident if you overcome your laziness. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/72 "2015-11-25T19:33:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Complicating an easy narrative that you suggest is that sometimes moderate and extremist groups form temporary alliances, such as to coordinate attacks on the Syrian military. This seems to have been [the case here as well](http://www.juancole.com/2015/11/turkey-russian-plane.html): > [@](#): > > Turkmen […] have organized militias and have joined rebel groups fighting the al-Assad government. Some of them have sometimes tactically allied with the Jabhat al-Nusrah, al-Qaeda in Syria, against government troops. The Russian claim that they were only bombing ISIS is clearly a brazen lie. The Turkmen have sometimes allied with _Al-Qaeda_, but never with _ISIS_. Then there’s the possibility that the Russian attacks on the Turkmen were… > [@](#): > > … Intended to panic Turkmen populations into fleeing over the border into Turkey, thus removing a power base for Turkey on the Syrian side of the border and removing a group that would aid al-Qaeda and its allies in Jisr al-Shughour to move west. So once again Russia seems to be working towards their primary goal of maintaining control over Latakia and Tartus. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/73 "2015-11-25T20:51:59Z")
Russia complains that the shooting down of their warplane was unprovoked and unannounced? (Never mind Turkey released the audio telling them to turn back) Yet when they shot down KAL 007, they never warned that civilian airliner, and thereafter claimed they were justified in shooting it down and killing almost 270 people. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/74 "2015-11-26T01:45:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A 17 second intrusion? Give them an inch … ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/75 "2015-11-26T02:05:31Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Give them an inch … That may have been what the Turks were thinking. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418/76 "2015-12-02T16:55:18Z")
Found some relevant info on Listverse today. They posted a list of [10 Suspicious Deaths Of Whistle-Blowers.](http://listverse.com/2015/12/02/10-suspicious-deaths-of-whistle-blowers/) Of interest to this discussion is #8, Serna Shim. She was an American/Iranian journalist who discovered that ISIS fighters were being smuggled into Syria from Turkey, in vehicles labelled for the World Food Organization. After she reported this, Turkish intelligence accused her of being a foreign spy, and 2 days later she died when her car was smashed by a cement mixer. So, perhaps Russia had a good reason for bombing those “food trucks.” Which, last I heard, no relief agency has claimed as theirs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane/738418.md?page=3)