Yes, yes, yes, always use your turn signals. “depending on the jurisdiction? depending on the local laws”? To hell with that! You aren’t going to run your battery down by using your freakin’ turn signal. This is one of the worst traffic offenses I see. I see people going 80 mph weaving in and out of lanes and never using a turn signal. What the hell is wrong with these people? I applaud mangeorge - people need to know what you intend to do in a parking lot just as much as on the road. Going to work one morning I had a guy just come right on over in front of me - no turn signal - then he waves a thank you! I thought Christ, you’re polite enough to wave a thank-you, but couldn’t alert me you were coming over with a turn signal, you dumbass. You’re not always aware of other cars on the road, especially if they’re in your blind spot; it helps pedestrians too. ALWAYS USE YOUR TURN SIGNAL. (Please, pretty please with sugar on it. :D)
There is a “No left turn on Red” sign in the town where I live (in Virginia).
You can check this law (for Virginia at least) by downloading the driving laws from http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/drivers/manual.html and checking page 19 of section 2, which states:
Left turn on Red: You may turn left at a red light if you are on one-way street and turning left onto another one-way street. Come to a complete stop and proceed with caution. You may not turn while the light is red if a sign prohibits the turn. You must yield to all oncoming traffic and pedestrians.
Timing circuits in ares are made from electronic components which have at best a 1% tolerance, and also vary with temperature, and age. It’s easy to see even a tiny difference in timing. Let’s say you had two cars, with a nominal 1 second flash rate (1/2 second on, 1/2 second off). If car A is just 0.1% different than car B, they’ll be noticeably out of sync in 30 seconds or so, and completely out of sync in 8 minutes.
As opus said, you’d need crystal accuracy to get better, and then you’d still only be at 0.01% or so.
Arjuna34
I don’t use signals much cause everyone here knows where Im going.
tomndebb:
You are right, my driving experience is limited to DC, MD, VA & DE so I will conceed that there may be states allowing such a manuver that I have never been to. I just find it amazing that in the states that I have been driving in, so many people do TLOR (and honk at me whan I refuse to) that I wonder why I’d never heard of any laws permitting such a turn.
My logic wasn’t completely faulty: the existance of a RTOR law is validated by the numerous NRTOR signs. Therefore, the total lack of NLTOR signs leads me to believe that there is no specific law allowing LTOR. I will continue to refrain from TingLOR until I know it’s allowed by law. I just know I’ll be the first one to get caught.
Johnny:
The short answer: You may just have to take my word for it.
Okay, I’ve been here long enough to know that anybody who answers a question with “take my word for it” gets a royal barbecue, so here’s the long answer:
Electronic circuits are made up of components that, in order to function as the designer expects, must conform to certain standards of accuracy. These standards are called tolerance values. Next time you’re in your neighborhood Radio Shack™, ask the friendly salesperson to show you some resistors. You should see a tolerance specification somewhere on the package, usually expressed as a percentage. The unit of resistance measurement is the ohm. A 10% tolerance rating on a 1000 ohm resistor means the manufacturer guarantees that said resistor will actually be 1000 ohms, ±10% (i.e., it could actually measure between 900-1100 ohms and still be considered good). An engineer must consider this when designing circuits. If the circuit must be highly precise, then 5% or 2% tolerance components would be selected. Since auto manufacturers are primarily concerned that the signal flashes, and less concerned about whether it flashes 60 times per minute or 61 times, I doubt they’d be willing to shell out the extra beans for high precision components for a simple timing circuit.
If you are interested in seeing the circuits in question and maybe even experimenting, thay have some pretty good beginner’s books on electronics.
Recent polls revealed that some people have never been polled, until recently.
arjuna:
Thanks, that’s just what I wanted to see. Still wondering about DC though.
It sounds like you’re a milspecs person. I’m from the wonderful world of consumer electronics, and can’t remember ever having seen a tolerance better than 2%.
Recent polls revealed that some people have never been polled, until recently.
While Arjuna34 and opus would be correct for blinker circuits based on electronics, the ones I’ve seen are all mechanical. I’m not saying newer ones are not electronic, but as recently as '96 (the most recent I’ve needed to look at) at least some were mechanical.
They work by passing current through a double reed made of two different metals riveted together at each end. One end is fixed, and the other rests on a contact to complete the circuit. The current heats one metal more and bends the reed away from the contact, breaking the circuit. The reed then cools and bends back to complete the circuit again. Repeat as neccesary. The “click” sound is actually the reed bending. Differences in timing result from regulator voltage, available current, resistance in the wiring, blinker, and bulbs, manufacturing variences in bulbs and blinkers, and ambient temperature, as well as anything else you could possibly think of. Too many variables to possibly get a uniform response.
opus, my man,
I have just confirmed what manny have thought for a while…, things are different inside the Beltway. I just called the Washington, D.C. Police Department (202) 727-4326 and was informed that while a right on a red is legal, a left on a red is illegal and might even get you transported downtown in addition to the ticket.
pmh, that would explain why the blink rate drastically changed when a turn-signal light went out on my '67 Impala many years ago 
Arjuna34
Opus -
I know very basic electronics, but probably not enough as I should. I guess if I knew more about how the circuits worked, maybe I would understand why it’s so hard to make them all the same. It’s no big deal. I understand what your saying about tolerances etc and I appreciate the answer.
I don’t know why, but turn signals just bug the hell out of me. I know it’s stupid. 
“What are your friends complaining about, Mangeorge?”
—SanibelMan
I don’t know why, but turn signals just bug the hell out of me. I know it’s stupid.
—johnnyharvard
There he is, johnny, one of those guys! 
Told ya.
Peace,
mangeorge
I’m from Toledo. What are turn signals? 
Washington also allows left turn on red, as shown at http://www.wa.gov/dol/drivers/guide/guide4.htm#Signals :
Pennsylvania allows left turn on red from a One Way street to another One Way Street. Check the Driver’s manual.
Let me also say that the absence of “No LEFT Turn on Red” signs as proof of the non-existence of Left Turn on Red Laws is a non sequiter. As has been noted several times during this thread, There are signs that say: “No TURN on Red.” This is sufficient to describe both right and left turns, depending on the context, without a municipality having to incur the extra cost of producing an extra and extraneous kind of sign.
“Shoplifting is a victimless crime. Like punching someone in the dark.” -Nelson Muntz.
Fine. Just remove the words right and left from my earlier statements and the reasoning is still valid: I have never seen a No (whichever direction you fancy) Turn on Red sign at an intersection where only a left turn is possible, therefore LTOR is not permitted due to the absence of relevant controlling signs.
Sheesh. :rolleyes:
Recent polls revealed that some people have never been polled, until recently.
No, it’s not the use of turn signals that bugs me - I wish more people would use them more often, even in parking lots. It’s ridiculous that people feel they sometimes don’t need to signal their intentions because what they’re going to do is so “obvious”. Why would a collision in a parking lot be any less dangerous to you or your car than one at a similar speed on the road?
And don’t get me started on folks who just fly right across the lot in whatever direction they choose…
No, it the mechanics behind the way those things work that irks me. Just a pet peeve. I wish I understood electronics better… No big deal.
I think it should be legal to go straight ahead at a 3-way intersection if there is no road to the right…
-D
…on a red light.
Denny:
This already is legal. You already have the right of way in such a situation. If you are suggesting that we should be able to do this even at a red light, I am pretty sure that’s where traffic safety draws the line. If the intersection is quiet enough that the local law thinks such a move is safe, the lights will be set to flashing, or there would be a stop sign and no signal at all.
It already amazes me how many people just cruise right through flashing red signals. Enacting a “Straight Thru on Red After Stop” law would make red signals virtually meaningless. Drivers would begin aggressively battling for the right to proceed through an intersection.
Recent polls revealed that some people have never been polled, until recently.
Opus:
Take a road trip into Crystal City, turn left onto 23rd from Southbound US 1 (on green, of course), then turn left from 23rd onto Crystal Drive (again on green). At the next light you will see a sign which reads “Left Turn On Red After Stop”. Turn left here, and you will see another of these signs. Of course, about half the drivers I see either don’t see, don’t believe, or just plain ignore these signs and wait for green.
“Age is mind over matter; if you don’t mind, it don’t matter.” -Leroy “Satchel” Paige
The point being, “Always assume that left turn on red is illegal unless there is a sign saying otherwise.”
“Age is mind over matter; if you don’t mind, it don’t matter.” -Leroy “Satchel” Paige