# Turning right on red. Is it safe to turn in this scenario? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 24, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486 "2018-02-24T19:08:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/21 "2018-02-25T13:14:00Z")
It would not entirely be “your fault” if you turned and an accident ensued due to someone to your left changing lanes. (Because you’re not supposed to change lanes that close to an intersection; it’s something I’ve actually been pulled over for doing). If the break in traffic in the far right lane (the one you want to turn into) is somewhat rare, I’d make the turn but I’d try to watch the other cars a bit while doing so and if they did change lanes would try to adjust (pull to the farthest right I could safely place my car, etc). If on the other hand there’s likely to be a better break in traffic if I just wait a moment or two, I’d wait. Also: how fast does my car accelerate? (It’s relevant) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/22 "2018-02-25T15:13:48Z")
I do this type of turn fairly regularly. Sometimes I won’t make the turn, depending on what I intuit cars A, B, and C doing. The way it’s drawn, I might not turn, as B, being so close to C, may decide to pull out to the right lane and try to overtake. It’s just one of those things that I would have to dynamically observe to say what I would definitively do, but it’s usual for me to turn in that type of situation. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/23 "2018-02-25T15:26:49Z")
Agree cars a,b,c are too close, unless they are moving very slow, so no turn. Though in very heavy traffic where that may be a golden opportunity I may be tempted, another factor is the shoulder lane, if one was available to use as a acceleration/ emergency avoidance lane, I may consider the turn a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/24 "2018-02-25T16:13:55Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > […]I saw a defendant on Judge Judy claim an accident under similar circumstances wasn’t his fault because the plaintiff changed lanes. The judge “calmly” explained that the plaintiff absolutely had the right of way and the accident was entirely his (the defendant’s) fault. IIRC, the phrase “you’re an idiot” as used. If you put the same case in front of 100 different traffic court judges you could get 100 opinions about who has how much fault. (Judge Judy was a judge in a family court. I would not cite her as an authority on traffic code.) Here are two real cases that I believe could be found in different ways by different judges: A friend of mine was turning right onto a main roadway. The rightmost lane was marked as “right turn only”, required to turn right into the road where my friend was emerging from. There was only one car coming, and it was in the right-turn lane with a right-turn signal on. My friend pulled out and was hit by this car who decided to go straight. My friend was found at fault by a judge for failing to yield to oncoming traffic. Another friend was turning left at an intersection controlled by a light, no left-turn signal. He pulled into the intersection (legal in that state) and was waiting for oncoming traffic to clear. The light turned red so he completed his turn. An oncoming car ran the red light and broadsided him. The judge found him to be at fault for failing to yield to oncoming traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/25 "2018-02-25T18:35:08Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > If you put the same case in front of 100 different traffic court judges you could get 100 opinions about who has how much fault. > > (Judge Judy was a judge in a family court. I would not cite her as an authority on traffic code.) > > Here are two real cases that I believe could be found in different ways by different judges: > > A friend of mine was turning right onto a main roadway. The rightmost lane was marked as “right turn only”, required to turn right into the road where my friend was emerging from. There was only one car coming, and it was in the right-turn lane with a right-turn signal on. My friend pulled out and was hit by this car who decided to go straight. My friend was found at fault by a judge for failing to yield to oncoming traffic. > > Another friend was turning left at an intersection controlled by a light, no left-turn signal. He pulled into the intersection (legal in that state) and was waiting for oncoming traffic to clear. The light turned red so he completed his turn. An oncoming car ran the red light and broadsided him. The judge found him to be at fault for failing to yield to oncoming traffic. Both of these examples are consistent with Judge Judy’s ruling. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/26 "2018-02-26T00:56:05Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > I don’t know where you would sit at a red light for 10 minutes even in Sydney. Sorry, I was unclear in what I wrote. Since we don’t have an equivalent to the US “turn right on red” rule, I generalized it to an intersection that is not controlled by lights. I probably shouldn’t have confused the issue. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/27 "2018-02-26T01:48:55Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Both of these examples are consistent with Judge Judy’s ruling. My point was not whether Judge Judy was right or wrong, but rather than other judges could rule that the red-light runner or the straight-in-a-turn-lane violators were at fault, or some combination. The answer is not black and white because in each case both drivers violated the law. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/28 "2018-02-26T02:11:28Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > I’d make the turn. Where I am it’s illegal to change lanes while you’re in an intersection, and the default approach is to assume the other drivers will be obeying the law in the absence of clear evidence otherwise. Also, the three cars in the left lane have an unobstructed view of me and my intention to turn right is pretty clear given my position in the lane. If an accident occurred in this scenario I can reasonably expect I would not be found at fault, so basically the only risk in the scenario is of something outside of reason and I’d be overly cautious to assume it. If you assume that other drivers obey the law, you wouldn’t last five minutes where I live. I seldom turn in this situation unless there is a very long line of cars in the left lane and no one in the right. All too often a car in the left decides it is too slow and will move to the right lane to pass the cars in front. I’ve seen enough cars do this, in intersections, that I err on the side of caution. Cars run red lights all the time, changing lanes in an intersection is nothing compared to that. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/29 "2018-02-26T15:38:37Z")
My morning commute involves a right turn at a stop light onto a six-lane road (3 lanes each way), so I deal with this on a regular basis. Just this morning actually, I had plenty of room in the right-hand lane, but the next lane in was quite busy. I didn’t turn until that lane cleared as well. It’s just not safe - they could change lanes any time, and I don’t relish the prospect of being abruptly rear-ended. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/30 "2018-02-26T15:49:43Z")
I come upon this all the time, albeit usually it on a 50-mph road. Often on a 35-mph road too tho. I never turn unless both of the lanes on my destination road are clear. I don’t trust other drivers. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/31 "2018-02-26T15:58:01Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I come upon this all the time, albeit usually it on a 50-mph road. Often on a 35-mph road too tho. I never turn unless both of the lanes on my destination road are clear. I don’t trust other drivers. This - if the lane I am turning into + the lane to its immediate left are clear, then I will take the right (on red). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/32 "2018-02-26T16:16:25Z")
My trust in other drivers, on a scale of 1-10, is a big zero. I never turn in this situation, whether or not a red light is involved. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/33 "2018-02-26T16:38:35Z")
If I’m A, B, or C, if that blue car starts turning I’m alert and ready to take action. I don’t know if they’re going to take that turn wide, or try to jump immediately into the left lane, so I’m going to slow down and see what they do. If I’m the blue car, then, knowing that those 3 cars are likely trying to predict my move, I’d prefer to sit tight and wait for D to go. However, if there’s a huge line of cars after D and it’s now or never and I’m running late, yeah, I’ll go. But I hug the right side of the lane and try not to alarm anyone. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/34 "2018-02-26T17:32:03Z")
I face this every day on the way to work, and I do not make the turn till both lanes are empty or have cars far away. I figure I have to assume that any of those cars may choose to change lanes anytime. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/35 "2018-02-26T17:39:12Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > See this diagram: ([jpg](https://www.dropbox.com/s/9wc1y7f88stskue/Turning%20Right%20at%20light.jpg?dl=0) or [pdf](https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2unljioby194kg/Turning%20Right%20at%20light.pdf?dl=0)). You are in the blue car. > > Let’s say you come up to an intersection comprised of two, four-lane roads. You want to make a right. Your light is red. > > You look to your left to see if any traffic is coming. There is only one car in the right lane (Car D in the diagram), and it’s far enough away that you can safely make the turn. **But** … there are three cars in the left lane going through the intersection (Car A, Car B, and Car C in the diagram). > > Do you make the turn? > > The danger, of course, is if Car A, Car B, or Car C decides to switch to the right lane in the middle of the intersection while you’re making the turn. > > I have been in this situation many times. Sometimes I will make the turn, and pray one of those cars doesn’t switch lanes in the middle of the intersection. Other times I wait until both lanes are clear. I generally wait in those situations. not only because one of those cars might switch lanes, but do so w/o signaling. and if anyone behind me has a problem with that, I’ll just go ahead and let them know they’re #1. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/36 "2018-02-27T00:31:38Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Do you make the turn? > > The danger, of course, is if Car A, Car B, or Car C decides to switch to the right lane in the middle of the intersection while you’re making the turn. You make the turn. If another car changes lanes in the intersection, they are automatically at fault if a crash occurs (in Texas, at least). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/37 "2018-02-27T00:47:06Z")
Cold comfort when they’re pulling you free from your car with the jaws of life. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/38 "2018-02-27T02:05:27Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > You make the turn. If another car changes lanes in the intersection, they are automatically at fault if a crash occurs (in Texas, at least). None of the three cars are in the intersection, and C is the only one close enough to not be able to change before entering the intersection. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/39 "2018-02-27T03:53:15Z")
I was behind someone facing this very dilemma today. He chose not to turn. He lived. I certainly did not honk. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486/40 "2018-02-27T13:10:34Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > You make the turn. If another car changes lanes in the intersection, they are automatically at fault if a crash occurs (in Texas, at least). This will surely make my family happy while they are scattering my ashes the following week. If I’m the blue car, I’m not turning until both lanes are clear. Same applies for a left turn when the blue car has just a stop sign (and the green cars don’t). > [@Channing Idaho Banks](#): > > I say go. if you are too timid you will end up being one of those drivers who just waits for the light to change to make a right turn, and then has to wait for all the pedestrians who are crossing. When my light turns green, I can “commit” by getting well out into the intersection. This way, even if peds are initially blocking the crosswalk, I’ll get to go when my light turns red (because I’m already out there). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turning-right-on-red-is-it-safe-to-turn-in-this-scenario/809486.md?page=3)