# Turns out older stuff was better made. Like 20 times better. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 12, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178 "2013-05-12T22:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/41 "2013-05-13T11:35:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I do my best to avoid crappy Chinese-made products, but it isn’t easy. I don’t mind paying for quality, but finding it is the trick. Your problem (and mine, too) is that you’re shopping for quality in a marketplace where most people shop for the lowest selling price. These people don’t care, or perhaps don’t understand, that paying more up front will result in a lower overall cost in the long run. Some people think short term, some think long term. I’m reminded of when one of my favorite bra makers switched from using metal rings to plastic. Metal rings are painted, and the paint will wear off. Plastic rings stay the same color, and cost less, and they’ll break, whereas the metal rings will last longer than the bra elastic. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/42 "2013-05-13T12:18:06Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > In my kitchen I use a wooden-handled skinning knife of my uncle’s circa the thirties because I’ve never found a knife that will keep an edge like that. Kitchen knives are made of stainless steel because they’re expected to be frequently wet or exposed to high-acid foods like tomatoes. Stainless is more corrosion resistant but much softer than non-food knives like your uncle’s skinning knife. A hard steel knife will serve beautifully provided you keep it clean and dry. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/43 "2013-05-13T12:50:32Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > In terms of performance, cars are much better now. But not in terms of lasting – the steel is much thinner, plastic gizmos stop working and are difficult/expensive to repair or replace for the at home mechanic. Reflecting that cars last longer these days, warranties have markedly improved over the years. If you’d asked a new car salesman in the 1950s for a four-year, 50,000 mile basic warranty (and longer on the powertrain) he’d have been rolling on the floor with laughter. And current corrosion warranties commonly last at least six years/100,000 miles, so I’m not buying the “cars today rust out sooner” argument. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/44 "2013-05-13T12:56:52Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Kitchen knives are made of stainless steel because they’re expected to be frequently wet or exposed to high-acid foods like tomatoes. Stainless is more corrosion resistant but much softer than non-food knives like your uncle’s skinning knife. A hard steel knife will serve beautifully provided you keep it clean and dry. Most quality kitchen knives are not made of stainless steel. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/45 "2013-05-13T13:23:59Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Absolutely untrue. The metal may be thinner but the rustproofing is so much improved that all those aftermarket rustproofing places were driven out of existence long ago. I live in salt country (New England) and rust is for the most part a non-issue. I can’t believe you are seeing such dissimilar results. this. in addition to the improvements in corrosion treatments, a really big part of the reason cars don’t rust very quickly is proper drainage. newer design and simulation tools mean engineers can eliminate crevices and cavities where water and salty muck can collect and get stuck. up through the '70s, cars in snow states would start rusting through within 2-3 years (my dad’s '73 Cougar had holes in the trunk floor and quarter panels by 1977.) Anyone who thinks cars were better built and more reliable back in the “olden days” is clearly delusional. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/46 "2013-05-13T13:30:04Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > No, I believe that modern Corning Ware is not the same stuff. The newer product breaks. [Pyrex](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrex) is similar. It used to be made of borosilicate glass, now it’s just made of tempered glass. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/47 "2013-05-13T13:43:28Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It is really a question of “how much do I want to pay”? I can tell you that yes, by and large, the low end stuff for sale today is made with cheaper materials. Take faucets-a good American made faucet 40 years ago was of cast brass or bronze, with a heavy chrome plate. Sch a faucet will last \>50 years. The big box store low end facet today is made in China, and is of cast zinc, plated with chrome. Once the plating wears off, the zinc will corrode, and you throw it away and by a new one-the mfg.s say the service life is 8 years. You get what you pay for, but I think there are more options on what you can pay for within a given category. If we use wrenches as a category, there are at least 3 major tiers these days- the Snap-On/Mac/Cornwell, the Craftsman/Kobalt/Husky, and the Harbor Freight/No-name cheap Chinese wrenches. I suspect that back in the day, it was more like 1 category for the average consumer, and that tier was the Craftsman/Kobalt/Husky one, and may have been marginally better made than today’s. Oh, and whoever said that Kenmore stuff isn’t the same… that’s because it never is. Kenmore just rebrands some other major appliance manufacturer’s stuff, so depending on when you bought it, it may have been a Maytag, a Frigidaire, or a Whirlpool under the hood (so to speak). ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/48 "2013-05-13T14:37:23Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > There are zero things in my house which have lasted for the past 60 years. I don’t even know anyone who owns anything made in the 50’s. > > My house was built in the 70s, and my water main just corroded through, causing a $2,500 repair. It happens. If your house was built earlier than the 90’s, it’ll happen to you too. My new water main line will still be in good shape when the aliens are examining our fossils. > > They just don’t make things like they used to? I call bullshit! That’s only true for parts of your house. Mine was build in 1928, and some of it is worse than a modern replacement (ceramic sewer pipe had to be replaced and was found to be essentially gone) but some of it you wouldn’t be able to afford even if you could find, like the old grown hardwood window sills. We get almost no noise from the road out front even though the windows are original because the walls are much, much sturdier than any new construction I’ve been in. The interior doors are all solid oak. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/49 "2013-05-13T15:19:44Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Absolutely untrue. The metal may be thinner but the rustproofing is so much improved that all those aftermarket rustproofing places were driven out of existence long ago. I live in salt country (New England) and rust is for the most part a non-issue. I can’t believe you are seeing such dissimilar results. Rust is a non issue in the north east? That I have never heard. Ford Rangers are notorious for having the frames rot out behind the rear wheels. How long are you keeping a vehicle before proclaiming that rust is a non issue? ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/50 "2013-05-13T15:25:25Z")
Every time I see discussions like this, I immediately think of the stapler. In the olden days you could use those things as a hammer; nowadays they’re just cheap plastic imitations of the original. I think one of the main reasons things “aren’t made like they used to” comes down to two words: [Planned Obsolescence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence). ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/51 "2013-05-13T15:37:20Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > Rust is a non issue in the north east? That I have never heard. Ford Rangers are notorious for having the frames rot out behind the rear wheels. > > How long are you keeping a vehicle before proclaiming that rust is a non issue? I live in New England too and they speak the truth. New cars today just don’t rust much, if at all, and that is completely different than cars made say 20 years ago. I have never had a rust problem despite keep my vehicles outside all the time and not taking any particular care to wash the salt off in the winter. I usually keep my vehicles for about 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/52 "2013-05-13T15:41:26Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > Every time I see discussions like this, I immediately think of the stapler. In the olden days you could use those things as a hammer; nowadays they’re just cheap plastic imitations of the original. > > I think one of the main reasons things “aren’t made like they used to” comes down to two words: [Planned Obsolescence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence). Staplers aren’t hammers though and shouldn’t be judged based on the ability to serve as one. Those old staplers were durable but didn’t always do their job as a _stapler_ that well. They tended to jam a lot. You can find cheap staplers today that aren’t worth anything but you can also buy greatly improved versions for sale [like this highly ranked design.](http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/10/paperpro-makes-quite-possibly-the-best-staplers-ever/) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/53 "2013-05-13T16:00:24Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You get what you pay for, but I think there are more options on what you can pay for within a given category. > > If we use wrenches as a category, there are at least 3 major tiers these days- the Snap-On/Mac/Cornwell, the Craftsman/Kobalt/Husky, and the Harbor Freight/No-name cheap Chinese wrenches. > > I suspect that back in the day, it was more like 1 category for the average consumer, and that tier was the Craftsman/Kobalt/Husky one, and may have been marginally better made than today’s. > Oh, and whoever said that Kenmore stuff isn’t the same… that’s because it never is. Kenmore just rebrands some other major appliance manufacturer’s stuff, so depending on when you bought it, it may have been a Maytag, a Frigidaire, or a Whirlpool under the hood (so to speak). Yes, you can certainly buy hi quality stuff today-it just costs more. My point is that the Chinese have perfected the art of making stuff cheap-it is up to you to decide if it makes sense to pay for higher quality. The labor to replace a faucet runs a bout $120.00-so should you install a $26.00 faucet? Maybe spending more wold make sense. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/54 "2013-05-13T16:11:19Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I live in New England too and they speak the truth. New cars today just don’t rust much, if at all, and that is completely different than cars made say 20 years ago. I have never had a rust problem despite keep my vehicles outside all the time and not taking any particular care to wash the salt off in the winter. I usually keep my vehicles for about 10 years. My experience is with pickup trucks between 1990-2000 in upstate NY, and I assure you that rust is a HUGE issue. Try looking for a pickup from that time frame in this area and you will be horrified at what you see. I am curious what happens to the newest vehicles after the 10 year time frame you mention. I readily agree that the newer technology certainly outperforms the old by a wide margin in the short term. But what happens 20 -25 years down the road when all the sensors, computer chips, and factory quick connect parts have been beaten down by a multitude of winters? They become a nightmare to fix. It is at this point that the older vehicles perform better. Thick steel, easily repaired parts. Not a data point that most people will encounter, but I have seen it many times. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/55 "2013-05-13T17:48:54Z")
I agree with you, **Enright3.** In a society based on capitalism things have to break. And the sooner the better. People who make them need to feed their families. Buildings - have you seen what those old stone masons could do? Awesome. Now a building is obsolete within a number of decades and torn down. Our town is in the process of buying $35,000 sculptures to beautify areas in which beautiful buildings used to stand. I am skeptical that everything from the past that lasted longer cost as much of a percentage of a family’s income as high quality items do today. No farm family in the thirties would have paid a high price for a kitchen clock. They couldn’t have afforded to do so. Automobiles, perhaps. But many other items were inexpensive but not “cheap crap.” My family’s ancestors were immigrants, and of humble circumstances, but the items I have from them were not only made to last but made with a craftsmanship which is lacking in today’s cooky cutter items. It may be worth mentioning that among them they were able to make many of the items they needed themselves. So, of course they wanted to put their best work into them. Technology has made that difficult or impossible for the average family. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/56 "2013-05-13T19:18:24Z")
New cars are better than old cars in almost every respect. This includes safety, performance, efficiency, and reliability. Not only is rust less of a problem, but when was the last time you waxed your car? When was the last time you had to have your car repainted? Both of these were common occurrences before the 1980s. The **clearcoat** has made our lives so much easier, yet it is something we take for granted. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/57 "2013-05-13T19:23:20Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > I am curious what happens to the newest vehicles after the 10 year time frame you mention. My current car (2004 Subaru Outback) is 9 years old, has 138,000 miles on it, not a spec of rust, and the only major repairs have been a CV joint and axle due to a torn boot and a new exhaust system. I fully expect to get 200,000 miles out of it, and most people could do the same if they wanted to. My first car (1979 Chevy Impala) made it to 120,000 miles with some rust, but problems were accumulating and the engine burned oil. Granted it had been in an accident a few years earlier, but it was still on the way out. Cars used to have lots more problems, required lots more maintenance, performed poorer, were less efficient, and polluted more. Cars didn’t make it 20-25 years except for rare exceptions. Those were babied or restored. Most died uneventful deaths due to rust, mechanical breakage, or engine failure long before that. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/58 "2013-05-13T19:32:08Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > My current car (2004 Subaru Outback) is 9 years old, has 138,000 miles on it, not a spec of rust, and the only major repairs have been a CV joint and axle due to a torn boot and a new exhaust system. I fully expect to get 200,000 miles out of it, and most people could do the same if they wanted to. > > My first car (1979 Chevy Impala) made it to 120,000 miles with some rust, but problems were accumulating and the engine burned oil. Granted it had been in an accident a few years earlier, but it was still on the way out. Cars used to have lots more problems, required lots more maintenance, performed poorer, were less efficient, and polluted more. > > Cars didn’t make it 20-25 years except for rare exceptions. Those were babied or restored. Most died uneventful deaths due to rust, mechanical breakage, or engine failure long before that. Yep. I don’t think people realize how little attention cars require anymore. No carburetor to adjust, no points to burn out every 10,000 miles, no spark plugs eroded or fouled every 10,000 miles, no cap and rotor to change, no need to adjust timing, no choke to go out of whack, no bias-ply marshmallow tires to blow out every 8,000 miles, and so on. Cars back then were _junk._ ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/59 "2013-05-13T19:54:07Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > My current car (2004 Subaru Outback) is 9 years old, has 138,000 miles on it, not a spec of rust, and the only major repairs have been a CV joint and axle due to a torn boot and a new exhaust system. I fully expect to get 200,000 miles out of it, and most people could do the same if they wanted to. > > My first car (1979 Chevy Impala) made it to 120,000 miles with some rust, but problems were accumulating and the engine burned oil. Granted it had been in an accident a few years earlier, but it was still on the way out. Cars used to have lots more problems, required lots more maintenance, performed poorer, were less efficient, and polluted more. > > Cars didn’t make it 20-25 years except for rare exceptions. Those were babied or restored. Most died uneventful deaths due to rust, mechanical breakage, or engine failure long before that. > [@jz78817](#): > > Yep. I don’t think people realize how little attention cars require anymore. No carburetor to adjust, no points to burn out every 10,000 miles, no spark plugs eroded or fouled every 10,000 miles, no cap and rotor to change, no need to adjust timing, no choke to go out of whack, no bias-ply marshmallow tires to blow out every 8,000 miles, and so on. Cars back then were _junk._ Agreed. We own a 2003 Subaru Outback with 205,000 miles, and a 2004 Toyota 4Runner with 187,000 miles. Neither has any rust to speak of, and both run fine. The Subaru has has a few issues over the years, including torn front CV boots (replaced twice), and some leaking engine seals, but nothing major. The Toyota has been virtually flawless: one of the door lock actuators had to be replaced, and routine maintenance–that’s it. Both of these vehicles have lasted about twice as long as any vehicle I’ve ever owned before. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/60 "2013-05-13T20:15:35Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > Every time I see discussions like this, I immediately think of the stapler. I looked up when I read this just so I could see my father’s old [Pilot 402-B](http://img3.etsystatic.com/004/1/7354499/il_fullxfull.390688911_ltbj.jpg) (mine has no rust). Works just fine. I still have his corded power drill [(it looks like this](http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mzLtXp2AzZgjRyGsBrQs4OQ.jpg)) too. And I won’t even talk about the piers in that “wooden tool box” that is pre-WW2 and appears to have been made on an anvil. And works just fine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178.md?page=4)