# Turns out older stuff was better made. Like 20 times better. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 12, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178 "2013-05-12T22:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/61 "2013-05-13T20:45:06Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > No, I believe that modern Corning Ware is not the same stuff. The newer product breaks. According to the [Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CorningWare), it’s now possible to buy the good stuff (pyroceramic glass) again: \*Reintroduction of CorningWare and Pyroflam In 2009, the stovetop line of CorningWare was reintroduced by World Kitchens. The cookware is manufactured by Keraglass/Eurokera (a subisidiary of Corning also specialised in vitroceramics for cooktop panels and equipment for laboratories) in Bagneaux-Sur-Loing, France. This is the only factory in the world still manufacturing vitroceramics (aluminosilicate glass) for cookware. At the time it restarted the production of CorningWare, Keraglass/Eurokera was able to abandon the use of arsenic in the manufacture of their vitroceramics, thanks to the technology of their new-built modern oven. In Europe, it is ARC who sells equivalent cookware to CorningWare under the name Pyroflam with a slightly different design. Since 2009, Pyroflam has been manufactured in the same French factory as CorningWare.\* Classic capitalism, really. Manufacturer decides that consumers aren’t willing to pay for expensive materials and lowers quality to save costs. Manufacturer later finds that there’s still a market for the expensive variety and reintroduces it alongside the cheaper version. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/62 "2013-05-13T20:50:20Z")
My stapler is brand new, made of metal, and heavy as hell. Stanley Bostitch. Looks just like the ones I saw all the time as a kid, so I’m not sure why you guys think stapler quality has suddenly gone to hell. Nostalgia, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/63 "2013-05-13T21:15:06Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Agreed. We own a 2003 Subaru Outback with 205,000 miles, and a 2004 Toyota 4Runner with 187,000 miles. Neither has any rust to speak of, and both run fine. The Subaru has has a few issues over the years, including torn front CV boots (replaced twice), and some leaking engine seals, but nothing major. The Toyota has been virtually flawless: one of the door lock actuators had to be replaced, and routine maintenance–that’s it. > > Both of these vehicles have lasted about twice as long as any vehicle I’ve ever owned before. How would you (and the quoted posters) respond to post #54, then? Specifically, the idea that a lot of computerized parts make it more of a headache for an owner, especially when he absolutely needs professionals to fix it (as opposed to the old days of car do-it-yourself repairs)? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/64 "2013-05-13T21:19:11Z")
Horse-drawn carriages are easier to fix than Model-T Fords. That doesn’t mean they’re of higher quality, just that the technology is simpler. ---
**Author:** ![smee\_goan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@smee\_goan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smee_goan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/65 "2013-05-13T21:49:47Z")
I may regret this but, but 50’s 60’s? Revere Ware copper bottom cookware ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/66 "2013-05-13T21:53:45Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > How would you (and the quoted posters) respond to post #54, then? Specifically, the idea that a lot of computerized parts make it more of a headache for an owner, especially when he absolutely needs professionals to fix it (as opposed to the old days of car do-it-yourself repairs)? Maybe 25 year old cars will be harder to fix in 2038 than they were in the past, but 25 year old cars have always been unusual. It’s possible for cars overall to last longer (which is what is happening) but also be less likely to last 25 years. Maybe for every ten cars that last 15 years instead of 10, there’s one that lasts 20 years instead of 25. Cars still last longer in that scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/67 "2013-05-13T21:56:11Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > How would you (and the quoted posters) respond to post #54, then? Specifically, the idea that a lot of computerized parts make it more of a headache for an owner, especially when he absolutely needs professionals to fix it (as opposed to the old days of car do-it-yourself repairs)? Older cars required much, much more maintenance than modern cars, they broke down much more often, and even with all that they didn’t last nearly as long. It might last a while but you’d be constantly doing repairs and needed maintenance. Compare that to a modern car where most models will easily do 150-200K with minimal maintenance, although you will need to go to a professional to do much of that. Yes, there are some trade offs related to availability of some electronic parts, but for the vast majority of people they are well worth it. The masses have reliable, long lasting, high performance, and low cost vehicles that that they could only dream of in years gone by. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/68 "2013-05-13T22:29:33Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Older cars required much, much more maintenance than modern cars, they broke down much more often, and even with all that they didn’t last nearly as long. It might last a while but you’d be constantly doing repairs and needed maintenance. > > Compare that to a modern car where most models will easily do 150-200K with minimal maintenance, although you will need to go to a professional to do much of that. Yes, there are some trade offs related to availability of some electronic parts, but for the vast majority of people they are well worth it. The masses have reliable, long lasting, high performance, and low cost vehicles that that they could only dream of in years gone by. Sorry, I beg to differ-my old straight-six AMC cost all of $26.00 to tune up-it was mechanically simple. Being RWD, it had very simple front end alignment specs-and usually held alignment for 3-4 years. I do agree about rust though-my car had perforation around the trunk deck when it was 7 years old-that doesn’t happen today. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/69 "2013-05-13T23:24:22Z")
My parents replaced their 20 year old refrigerator, and moved the old fridge into the basement. After about 2 years, the ice maker on the new fridge died. According to my parents, this is an example of old stuff being better than new stuff. The old fridge didn’t even have an ice maker, because ice makers didn’t exist when they bought it. The new fridge is still objectively better in every way (more room, more energy efficient, cooler, etc), but because that one feature stopped working, the old fridge is obviously better. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/70 "2013-05-14T00:13:59Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > My parents replaced their 20 year old refrigerator, and moved the old fridge into the basement. > > After about 2 years, the ice maker on the new fridge died. According to my parents, this is an example of old stuff being better than new stuff. > > The old fridge didn’t even have an ice maker, because ice makers didn’t exist when they bought it. The new fridge is still objectively better in every way (more room, more energy efficient, cooler, etc), but because that one feature stopped working, the old fridge is obviously better. confirmation bias/rose tinted glasses, or whatever else. Cars are still the pre-eminent example of this, IMO. You’ll still find oldsters who believe that cars back in the '50s and '60s were “better built” than the ones today. invariably if you try to ask why, the answers come down to either “a parking lot fender-bender didn’t cost $2000 to fix” or something like the “engine was made from good, heavy-duty cast iron.” Both of which are bullshit. Yes, in a parking lot ding situation, you might be looking at a couple hundred bucks to fix a bent bumper and repaint a fender, but if you were in a collision at road speed, you were very likely to be maimed or fucking dead. It doesn’t matter how many feet of sheetmetal you have in front of you if it just impotently tears away and lets the colliding vehicle drive your steering column up through your fucking chin. as for the second one, the reason engines were lumps of cast iron wasn’t because someone said “hey, if we make the block out of this, it’ll last forever.” It was because gray iron was the easiest, cheapest, and most acceptable way to cast engine blocks and cylinder heads. The ability to make thin-wall castings, or aluminum castings just wasn’t feasible back then. and more to the point, those gray iron engine blocks really didn’t last all that long. gray iron is relatively soft, and cylinder taper set in fairly quickly (at least compared to modern engines.) Old engines could last a “long” time if you rebuilt them every 75,000 miles. if you didn’t, the cylinder taper (and resulting blow-by) would send your oil consumption through the roof. meanwhile, the engine in my Neon has 163,000 miles on it and uses less than 1/4 of a quart of oil in 6,000 miles. And that’s even after Nickel-and-Daimler got their talons into it. the last thing that irritates me is the old duffers who think old cars were better because “you could work on the damn things yourself.” Well, the only reason that was a “good” thing is because _the fucking things always needed work!_ with modern cars, all you need to do is keep an eye on the fluids and they’ll (figuratively) run forever. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/71 "2013-05-14T00:53:44Z")
> [@smee\_goan](#): > > I may regret this but, > > but 50’s 60’s? > > Revere Ware copper bottom cookware Are you saying this is not made any more either? Yikes. I’m glad I also have a set of it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/72 "2013-05-14T00:58:10Z")
It’s available. I have no idea what point **smee goan** was attempting to make or the reason for the spoiler box. ---
**Author:** ![Pinmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@Pinmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pinmin)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/73 "2013-05-14T01:31:26Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > I agree with you, **Enright3.** Buildings - have you seen what those old stone masons could do? Awesome. Now a building is obsolete within a number of decades and torn down. Our town is in the process of buying $35,000 sculptures to beautify areas in which beautiful buildings used to stand. I work around buildings 1 to 100 years old, and the old buildings are obsolete due to structural issues, asbestos/lead/other hazards, or horrendous energy efficiency. Similarly, modern houses have vastly improved and much longer lasting water, sewer, and electrical systems. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/74 "2013-05-14T02:35:15Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Sorry, I beg to differ-my old straight-six AMC cost all of $26.00 to tune up-it was mechanically simple. And it was heavy, underpowered, had horrible emissions, and still wasn’t exceptionally reliable. It just lasted a long time. And modern engines still outlast, out-perform, and require less maintenance. It may have only cost $26 to tune up but I’ve essentially never needed a tune up in 140,000 miles on my current car. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/75 "2013-05-14T04:41:21Z")
Telephones used to last decades. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/76 "2013-05-14T05:46:52Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > From [the CorningWare website:](http://www.corningware.com/index.asp?pageId=99) > > From their [Use and Care section:](http://www.corningware.com/index.asp?pageId=80) > I can use my pre-1990 Corning Ware on/in anything. So the post-1990 Corning Ware really isn’t Corning Ware, is it? It’s something inferior with the Corning name pasted on. Pathetic, really. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/77 "2013-05-14T10:02:51Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > So the post-1990 Corning Ware really isn’t Corning Ware, is it? It’s something inferior with the Corning name pasted on. > > Pathetic, really. Same deal as with Pyrex. Corning Ware sold their brand to World Kitchen, which slapped the label on an inferior product. However, you \*can \* still buy the good stuff–it’s called Corning Ware “Pyroceram” or “Stovetop”. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/78 "2013-05-14T10:47:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This is a classic selection effect. Most things made in the 50s were cheap crap. So why don’t you see a bunch of 60-year-old cheap crap? Because it was cheap crap, and it’s all worn out by now. Bang and we have a winner. The only old stuff around is the stuff that was made well. It doesn’t mean it was ALL made well… ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/79 "2013-05-14T10:54:18Z")
I’ve seen a lot of cars here with a lot of rust, and had to ditch my 1992 and 1994 cars because they were rusting out when the engine was perfectly fine. I drive a 2002 now so maybe that will be different? From Slate: “I hate my classic car” > **[Why even the best old cars sucked.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/06/why-even-the-best-old-cars-sucked.html)** > > My wife and I ditched our dull late-model sedans a few years ago. We adopted a 1963 Studebaker Avanti as our only car, driven once or twice a week from... Highlights: Even the cheapest Kia nowadays has more effective braking system and will start the every time you turn the key. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178/80 "2013-05-14T11:25:20Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Sorry, I beg to differ-my old straight-six AMC cost all of $26.00 to tune up-it was mechanically simple. Being RWD, it had very simple front end alignment specs-and usually held alignment for 3-4 years. > I do agree about rust though-my car had perforation around the trunk deck when it was 7 years old-that doesn’t happen today. my mustang will cost $0 to tune up. why? it doesn’t need it. and unlike your AMC 258, it won’t likely have horrendous blow-by when it passes 100k miles. nor do I have a sloppy-ass recirculating-ball steering box which will have 30° of play on-center after a few thousand miles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turns-out-older-stuff-was-better-made-like-20-times-better/658178.md?page=5)