# Turtles, "Happy Together"...Creepy or Sweet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930 "2011-08-24T18:15:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/41 "2011-08-25T08:20:54Z")
> [@j66](#): > > But that doesn’t mean they never been together, only that they are apart now. The tense is only future, not contrary to fact (which I will admit can be bitch to scan.) > > And where do you get that the skies are not blue now? > > I always imagined the song being sung when he is missing her dreadfully because they have been apart for so long - maybe on the bus ride back from her house. I will admit that none of the sentences in themselves are fully clear about it. They are just indications, but all in the same directions. I could also ask, how do you get that they have been together before? No line says that clearly either. Anyway, I think that “Imagine how the world could be (if we were together)”, would be an odd thing to say to someone who is on a trip. It fits much better as a thing to say to someone with whom you’ve never been together. About the skies, it’s an implication. If I say: “When it’s summer, the weather will be good”, it implies that the weather is not good now. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/42 "2011-08-25T08:50:51Z")
A lot of love songs could be taken wrong if you’re considering. Most have lines like “I want you, I need you, I dream of you”. It was a simpler and more innocent time. I never took these songs any way except young, teenage love. A first love or crush on someone. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/43 "2011-08-25T09:25:06Z")
I sometimes think any song about “sweet sixteen” is creepy, unless it’s clear the protagonist is also supposed to be that age; and it’s very rarely clear on that point. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/44 "2011-08-25T11:37:06Z")
To think that a teenage boy obsessing about how much he likes a girl (and all in a very positive way, with no signs of jealousy) is creepy is seriously creepy itself. _Happy Together_ does set my teeth on edge a little bit, because it is just _too_ darn happy and positive (so I do not find it exactly ‘sweet’). This guy is riding for a fall, but that is not creepy, just pathetic. I always assumed that the singer and his girl were already boyfriend and girlfriend, and he is fantasizing about the relationship becoming more serious and permanent (rather like The Beach Boys’ _Wouldn’t It Be Nice_, which is very explicitly about a teen boy fantasizing about marrying his current girlfriend). That is what the mentions of imagining, and so forth, are about. Sure, the lyrics are vague enough that they _could_ be interpreted as fantasizing about a relationship he wants rather than one he already has, but that is not creepy, that is normal, and, frankly, if you think a young guy fantasizing about a girl, or about marrying his girlfriend, is creepy, it is _you_ who has problems. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/45 "2011-08-25T12:57:18Z")
Fantastic piece of music production. Turn it up really loud and listen to the arrangement, Remember it is all done with cheap crap. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/46 "2011-08-25T13:05:33Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > About the skies, it’s an implication. If I say: “When it’s summer, the weather will be good”, it implies that the weather is not good now. He’s not saying “the skies will be blue later”. He’s saying “the skies will be blue forever”. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/47 "2011-08-25T13:12:48Z")
Both. It’s mostly light and cheerful, but here is something about the melody of the verses (is the singing in a minor key?) that gives the song a slight undercurrent of wrongness and I think makes it much better than if it were straightforward happy joy-joy. I don’t see how the existence of more obviously creepy songs means that this one must be simple sweetness. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/48 "2011-08-25T13:26:56Z")
It definitely has a stalker’s mentality: Everything will be perfect once this person loves me. I shudder to think what the singer will do if he makes his move and the person in question tells him to fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/49 "2011-08-25T13:29:27Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > It definitely has a stalker’s mentality: Everything will be perfect once this person loves me. > > I shudder to think what the singer will do if he makes his move and the person in question tells him to fuck off. Why is that a stalker’s mentality? I see it more as a teenager/young person’s mentality. I mean, come on, who’s entirely level headed at that age about love/romance? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/50 "2011-08-25T13:32:55Z")
I didn’t say it cold ONLY be a stalker. Yes, it could just be a youngster with that lovely immature emtional idea that once you find your soul mate, life is perfect. If this song is sung by anyone over the age of 20, it is creepy. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/51 "2011-08-25T13:56:48Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > He’s not saying “the skies will be blue later”. He’s saying “the skies will be blue forever”. I think he is singing: When you’re with me the skies will be blue For all my life You might think I’m being pedantic by dividing that into two lines, but I think it’s a different thing. To me, the most likely reading of this line is that the skies are not blue now, but if / when they would be together, the skies will be blue, and this will last for all his life. I will readily admit that it is not the only interpretation of those lines. However, I think it is definitely a likely one. And taken together with other such lines in the song and the undercurrent of sadness/desperation in the music, it seems to be the most likely. It is like if you listen to Lola by the Kinks. Nowhere does it exactly say that Lola is a transvestite, but it is still heavily implied. And if you listen to an actual straightforward happy song, such as Sugar, Sugar or Walking on Sunshine, there is no ambiguity in neither the lyrics nor the sound. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/52 "2011-08-25T14:02:40Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I didn’t say it cold ONLY be a stalker. Yes, it could just be a youngster with that lovely immature emtional idea that once you find your soul mate, life is perfect. > > If this song is sung by anyone over the age of 20, it is creepy. I don’t think it means that they’re emotionally stunted or a stalker just for writing/feeling it. For acting like a stalker, yes, but having obsessive love feelings for someone isn’t inherently wrong or weird, as long as you know rationally that it’s a bit irrational. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/53 "2011-08-25T14:07:25Z")
I voted creepy because I find the melody on the haunting side, rather than “nice”. I cannot fathom people wanting it as their wedding song. Different strokes I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/54 "2011-08-25T14:42:33Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Both. It’s mostly light and cheerful, but here is something about the melody of the verses (is the singing in a minor key?) Good catch–the verses are not only in a minor key, but are set to a _descending_ chord progression. But that just makes the chorus all the brighter and happier when it bursts into the major tonality. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/55 "2011-08-25T14:52:40Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Good catch–the verses are not only in a minor key, but are set to a _descending_ chord progression. But that just makes the chorus all the brighter and happier when it bursts into the major tonality. Yup, it does that - the chorus is really jubilant. Minor keys and descending chord progressions are usually associated with stuff that’s melancholy, haunting, or tragic, and that changes the effect of the lyrics somewhat, enough that I don’t think someone has to be creepy to wonder if this song is creepy. I like the ambiguity myself. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/56 "2011-08-25T15:43:24Z")
This song is one of those songs that I always listened to with innocent oblivion as a cheery pop song until I started hearing people online say the song was creepy. Thing is, as soon as I read that, I started to ‘notice’ the creepy undertones of the melody. Is it possible this song was used in some kind of stalk/horror/sad movie before? And that folks are associating it with that movie subconsciously? I like the theory of it all being about minor keys and chord progressions. I like the idea that some musical genius knows how to mess with our psychology by choosing the right musical notes to write. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/57 "2011-08-25T15:44:04Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > It definitely has a stalker’s mentality: Everything will be perfect once this person loves me. > > I shudder to think what the singer will do if he makes his move and the person in question tells him to fuck off. I guess he’ll switch from the Turtles to Dion and the Belmonts. > [@](#): > > If you should say goodbye > I’d still go on loving you. > Each night I ask the stars up above > Why must I be a teenager in love? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/58 "2011-08-25T16:22:58Z")
I’ll admit I never noticed the questionable nature of the lyrics before now. But reading through the lyrics, I noticed a subtle point. In the beginning of the song, the singer is imagined how things will be when and if he gets together with the girl. Then about halfway through the song, there’s a shift and he’s singing about things that happened: “it had to be” and “we’re happy together”. The word imagine doesn’t appear in the second half of the song. So apparently at some point around the first chorus, he actually did invest a dime and call her up. And she did ease his mind and told him she belonged to him as well. So his fantasy relationship became a real relationship and everything turned out to be as great as he imagined it would be. Baba ba baaa baba ba ba. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/59 "2011-08-25T16:28:37Z")
Something else about the lyrics that I think make it a little unsettling is that all the verses are about what the singer needs, what the girl needs to do for the singer to atisify him. There is nothing like, “I would cross oceans for you” or “You are so beautiful”. it is all “You say you belong to me” “ease my mind” “Me holding you” “All my life” I think the song is definitely more than just cotton candy, there is a distinct subversiveness to it. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930/60 "2011-08-25T17:24:28Z")
[I Think I Love You](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-B0WCBz2mg) by David Cassidy follows the same format. Minor key, descending chord changes, building up to happy chorus. But this song kills “Happy Together” in the creepy department because of the harpsichord and the sinister chanting in the intro. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/turtles-happy-together-creepy-or-sweet/593930.md?page=4)