# TV License In Countries **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 6, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013 "2012-02-06T21:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013/41 "2012-02-11T22:27:15Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Yeah. Red, what gave you that idea? Perhaps the myth that TBG quoted of “Is it true if you don’t pay they come in and physically break the antenna connector on the back of your TV?” Or the fact that the “detector vans” not being a myth, at least according to the official website: > [@](#): > > We also have a fleet of detector vans that can detect the use of TV receiving equipment at specifically targeted addresses within 20 seconds. [http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/detection-and-penalties-top5/](http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/detection-and-penalties-top5/) If they can’t enter your home, how are they supposed to enforce the rule? Why wouldn’t more people simply not pay the bill? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013/42 "2012-02-11T22:42:20Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > If they can’t enter your home, how are they supposed to enforce the rule? Why wouldn’t more people simply not pay the bill? I guess people pay the licence fee out of a sense of moral obligation, or a sense that the law is the law, or, in a few cases, a fear that something bad will happen if they don’t pay it. The BBC is not completely averse to preying on the fears of the latter groups of people, occasionally employing slightly intimidating publicity campaigns (e.g. billboards saying “No. 14 Acacia Drive does not have a TV licence”), and also in the past having promoted what is basically folk-mythology about detector vans and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013/43 "2012-02-11T22:51:04Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Perhaps the myth that TBG quoted of “Is it true if you don’t pay they come in and physically break the antenna connector on the back of your TV?” > > Or the fact that the “detector vans” not being a myth, at least according to the official website: > > [http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/detection-and-penalties-top5/](http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/detection-and-penalties-top5/) > > If they can’t enter your home, how are they supposed to enforce the rule? Why wouldn’t more people simply not pay the bill? TBG’s comment had already been answered. I don’t doubt that some detector vans actually exist (they must, or it’d be false advertising); the way they’re used is simply not anything like the urban legend of detector vans roaming all over the country. Mailshotting every address without a license is the cheapest way of doing it, since the vast majority of homes do have TVs - less so nowadays, but it’s still very common indeed. They can’t just enter your home, but neither can any bailiff collecting a non-govt debt. Just like bailiffs, they can take you to court. There is also some societal pressure to pay the TV license. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013/44 "2012-02-11T23:10:37Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > TBG’s comment had already been answered. I’m well aware. My point was the fact that the myth existed suggested they had powers beyond what one might expect. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013/45 "2012-02-11T23:24:07Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I’m well aware. My point was the fact that the myth existed suggested they had powers beyond what one might expect. I see. Well, now you know - they don’t. It’s not a myth I’ve ever heard anywhere else, either. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013/46 "2012-02-12T01:02:38Z")
I’ve regularly seen marked license detector vans, they’re really not just a myth. I have been told they’re only really useful in areas with large houses, as they can’t pinpoint a TV very accurately; only to within a few meters, which in a small terrace or flat could be either side of a house boundary. I saw one last week, in fact. I do recall seeing one on the street outside my parents’ house, and getting a letter very shortly afterwards (they have no TV), so I do wonder how much it is just a scare tactic, rather than useful detection. I know two people who have been busted for not having a licence- one was due to a teenage daughter who didn’t know it wasn’t paid letting the inspector in, the other from a student flat where the TV was clearly visible when my friend opened the door to see who was knocking. Normally though, people just hide it in a cupboard or at a neighbour’s house when the inspectors come round. I believe they can, or used to be able to, apply for a search warrant (I’m not sure if the police are involved or not in this situation- possibly not- the RSPCA can also obtain search warrants IIRC), but then you do get notice- this happened years ago to my grandpa, who certainly wouldn’t have let them in without reason. He managed to bluff the inspector by claiming the arial was only there because he was too embarrassed to let the whole street know he couldn’t afford a TV… It was hidden in the attic. I heard stories of students where only one flat in the hall (where the university had granted the inspectors access) had a licence, so everyone passed their TVs along out of the windows into his flat before opening the doors, so the one guy they didn’t search wound up with like 20 of them in there… I don’t care if it’s true, it sounded hilarious. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013/47 "2012-02-12T01:51:12Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I guess people pay the licence fee out of a sense of moral obligation, or a sense that the law is the law, or, in a few cases, a fear that something bad will happen if they don’t pay it. The BBC is not completely averse to preying on the fears of the latter groups of people, occasionally employing slightly intimidating publicity campaigns (e.g. billboards saying “No. 14 Acacia Drive does not have a TV licence”), and also in the past having promoted what is basically folk-mythology about detector vans and so forth. The ads didn’t have the actual house numbers on: it was more like “6 households in Dolescum Alley have no television licence” My street featured once 🙂 there were three of them at the time. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013/48 "2012-02-12T02:37:18Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > I’ve regularly seen marked license detector vans, they’re really not just a myth. I have been told they’re only really useful in areas with large houses, as they can’t pinpoint a TV very accurately; only to within a few meters, which in a small terrace or flat could be either side of a house boundary. > > I saw one last week, in fact. > > I do recall seeing one on the street outside my parents’ house, and getting a letter very shortly afterwards (they have no TV), so I do wonder how much it is just a scare tactic, rather than useful detection. > > I know two people who have been busted for not having a licence- one was due to a teenage daughter who didn’t know it wasn’t paid letting the inspector in, the other from a student flat where the TV was clearly visible when my friend opened the door to see who was knocking. > > Normally though, people just hide it in a cupboard or at a neighbour’s house when the inspectors come round. > > I believe they can, or used to be able to, apply for a search warrant (I’m not sure if the police are involved or not in this situation- possibly not- the RSPCA can also obtain search warrants IIRC), but then you do get notice- this happened years ago to my grandpa, who certainly wouldn’t have let them in without reason. He managed to bluff the inspector by claiming the arial was only there because he was too embarrassed to let the whole street know he couldn’t afford a TV… It was hidden in the attic. > > I heard stories of students where only one flat in the hall (where the university had granted the inspectors access) had a licence, so everyone passed their TVs along out of the windows into his flat before opening the doors, so the one guy they didn’t search wound up with like 20 of them in there… I don’t care if it’s true, it sounded hilarious. 🙂 The [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom) on UK TV licensing is actually very good - tons of cites. For example, on detector vans: > [@](#): > > The BBC states that such technology used in conjunction with targeted advertising acts as a deterrent: its use may make it easier for TV Licensing agents to establish that an offence is likely to be taking place but they would still need to secure further evidence for successful prosecution.[51][52] > > Furthermore, such technology is restricted in its use by the meaning of “surveillance and covert human intelligence sources” in the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000[50] and the Regulation of Investigatory Powers (British Broadcasting Corporation) Order 2001.[53][54] > > TV Licensing now states “We will only use detection equipment to identify evaders when other, more cost effective, routes have been exhausted”,[5] and the BBC has stated that “Detection technology is generally used to obtain search warrants”.[51] No data from technology claimed to detect television signals has ever been used as court evidence,[55] and the existence of such devices is thought by some to be unlikely. So it does sound as though the propaganda about TV detector vans actually hunting out individual homes is guff. If you’ve seen some, you’re kinda lucky - it’s like seeing multiple bald eagles. WRT search warrants: > [@](#): > > TV Licensing enforces the BBC’s statutory obligation to ensure that every address where a television licence is required is correctly licensed,[48] but its agents have no special rights and, like any other member of the public, rely on an implied right of access to reach the front door.[60][62] > > The occupants may deny an agent entry to the premises[63] without cause and are under no obligation to answer any questions or enter into any conversation. > > If an agent has evidence that television is being watched or recorded illegally but is denied entry by the occupants so that (s)he cannot verify the suspicion without trespassing, then TV Licensing may apply to a magistrate for a search warrant, but the use of such warrants is rare.[50] The BBC states that a search warrant would never be applied for solely on the basis of non-cooperation with TV Licensing[60][64] and that in the event of being denied access to unlicensed property will use detection equipment rather than a search warrant.[63] It seems to me that the TV licensing ads are mostly very successful scaremongering; it’s appropriate that a broadcasting organisation should be so good at propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013/49 "2012-02-13T00:49:08Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > No. You used to have to produce it after a certain time in the unlikely event that someone came to your door to check, but now they have your details on their database. > > I’m actually overdue with paying mine. I phoned them up to say, essentially, sorry, I’m waiting to be paid (I’m self-employed) and then I’ll pay it, and they haven’t sent a letter since - they were sending them almost daily for a couple of weeks. > > They used to run scaremongering TV ads saying that, if you don’t have a license and do watch TV, you’ll be thrown in a prison till you’re 90, the upside of which would be the free food since all your money for your entire life had gone in fines, but it was pretty much just hype and I haven’t seen such a TV ad in a long time. Do they have TV in prison? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-license-in-countries/612013.md?page=2)