# TV shows/movies where a main good guy becomes bad **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 22, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129 "2010-06-22T15:11:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/41 "2010-06-22T20:43:09Z")
John Locke from Lost (although we ultimately learn that bad Locke is not really Locke at all) ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/42 "2010-06-22T20:54:09Z")
In Anime there’s Code Geass where the main character Lelouch who starts out wanting to make a better world and ends up turning into the very thing he hated. ---
**Author:** ![Sparrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Sparrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparrow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/43 "2010-06-22T21:13:18Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Well there is Captain Sisko from Deep Space Nine but he is the only one who knows he is ‘bad’. Another character Garrick knows but doesn’t think what they did was wrong. > > But Sisko knows what he did was wrong and completely against his code but he did it anyway ‘for the greater good’. Sisko??? Don’t you mean Gul Dukat? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/44 "2010-06-22T21:22:22Z")
> [@Sparrow](#): > > Sisko??? Don’t you mean Gul Dukat? I think he’s meaning the episode [In The Pale Moonlight](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_pale_moonlight) _Sick of the losses the Federation is taking in the war, Sisko enlists Garak’s help in getting the Romulans to join the Federation against the Dominion. Sisko soon learns that in order to save the Federation, he must violate the values for which it stands._ ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/45 "2010-06-22T22:27:54Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I think he’s meaning the episode [In The Pale Moonlight](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_pale_moonlight) > > _Sick of the losses the Federation is taking in the war, Sisko enlists Garak’s help in getting the Romulans to join the Federation against the Dominion. Sisko soon learns that in order to save the Federation, he must violate the values for which it stands._ [“I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all… I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would.”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-YyL7X4CWw) Sisko is awesome. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/46 "2010-06-22T23:52:06Z")
Michael Mancini in _Melrose Place_ was a good guy in the first season and went bad after. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/47 "2010-06-23T00:11:39Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I think he’s meaning the episode [In The Pale Moonlight](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_pale_moonlight) > > _Sick of the losses the Federation is taking in the war, Sisko enlists Garak’s help in getting the Romulans to join the Federation against the Dominion. Sisko soon learns that in order to save the Federation, he must violate the values for which it stands._ Meh, hardly an instance of a character turning into a “bad guy” in the sense of the OP. If we included every show where a character makes a morally ambiguous decision for the “greater good”, it would be a pretty long list. I actually thought of Gul Dukat, who starts bad, turns good, then ends up really bad. But he was a reoccuring character, not one of the “main good guys”. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/48 "2010-06-23T00:13:07Z")
Can we make an exception to the “whole movie/season” rule if the character only exists in a single movie? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/49 "2010-06-23T00:28:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How about Gaeta? He may not have turned evil, per se, but he ended up doing some very evil things. Of course, BSG morality is never black and white, but he did die a rather dark shade of grey; especially for someone who started out as one of the most decent characters on the show. Oh, yeah, Gaeta counts for sure. He tries to take over and get everyone(pretty much) killed. > [@Strassia](#): > > Actually, he was a good guy (played by Billy D. Williams) in the first Tim Burtan Batman movie and the villain in the third one of that series (played by Tommy Lee Jones). Oh, yeah. Too bad he was far from a main good guy in the first Burton Batman movie. > [@Wilbo523](#): > > John Locke from Lost (although we ultimately learn that bad Locke is not really Locke at all) How can this count? He’s en entirely different character. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/50 "2010-06-23T01:03:10Z")
And, of course, TVTropes has a page: [Face Heel Turn.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FaceHeelTurn) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/51 "2010-06-23T20:59:39Z")
Ash is a good buy in Evil Dead 1. But in Evil Dead 2 (or is it Evil Dead 3? Or both?) he gets split into a good guy AND a bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/52 "2010-06-25T18:57:14Z")
> [@CyclopticXander](#): > > You don’t mention if it is alright if said character returns to good status, if not then the field is a lot wider with characters like Willow in Buffy. > [@Enderw24](#): > > Jonathan from Buffy: The Vampire Slayer should probably count. Granted he wasn’t an effective or particularly evil bad guy, but he meets all the requirements of the OP. There’s also Angel. He turned bad on two different series. > [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Doesn’t this happen all the time in Pro Wrestling? Yes. Probably the biggest example, best fitting this thread, would be when Hulk Hogan turned heel (bad guy) at Bash at the Beach to join the Outsiders and form the nWo. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/53 "2010-06-25T19:38:00Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > There’s also Angel. He turned bad on two different series. But it wasn’t Angel turning bad, it was him losing his soul again and turning into a vampire. Angel himself wasn’t bad. (For a while in ATS it seemed like he was, but he wasn’t). ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/54 "2010-06-26T20:33:00Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > But it wasn’t Angel turning bad, it was him losing his soul again and turning into a vampire. Angel himself wasn’t bad. (For a while in ATS it seemed like he was, but he wasn’t). Well, on ATS they did play it off like a split personality but on BTVS it seemed like they were going more for “here’s the same guy, just now he’s evil”. They didn’t even use the name Angelus to distinguish him on BTVS, they only called him that in flashbacks and stuff, not after he turned bad. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129/55 "2010-06-26T20:44:11Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Well, on ATS they did play it off like a split personality but on BTVS it seemed like they were going more for “here’s the same guy, just now he’s evil”. They didn’t even use the name Angelus to distinguish him on BTVS, they only called him that in flashbacks and stuff, not after he turned bad. I always figured that was because on Buffy, we were seeing it from the humans’ POV. On Angel, it was more Angel’s POV. Or maybe it was inconsistent writing. Your choice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-movies-where-a-main-good-guy-becomes-bad/544129.md?page=2)