# TV shows that became better over time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 10, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727 "2015-03-10T22:21:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/21 "2015-03-11T07:03:56Z")
**Star Trek: Enterprise** got a bit better in Season 3 with the Xindi plot, and a lot better in Season 4 (ironically, once they knew it was going to be the last season). Well, except for the season finale, but we don’t speak of that. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/22 "2015-03-11T10:15:07Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > _Fringe_ got better over time and ended on a pretty high note. I’d disagree. To me the end of season 1 of Fringe was excellent. Season 2, and end even better. Season 3 superb too. Season 4 kind of took a bit of a nose dive, in the sense that they couldn’t top the first three. Season 5 kind of erm, well, resolved stuff, but it was kind of a different show then. I got the impression of not having time to do it right either… ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/23 "2015-03-11T11:26:40Z")
_Friday Night Lights_ improved despite difficulties presented by lack of financial backing. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/24 "2015-03-11T11:51:13Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > _Friday Night Lights_ improved despite difficulties presented by lack of financial backing. I’d have to go back and reexamine it having watched only once. But the first season was good. The second season was kind of good, but neutered by the writers strike and missing third of a season (which ‘happened’ but offscreen). Whether third, fourth and fifth are better? Hmmmn, I’m not sure. Perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/25 "2015-03-11T11:53:53Z")
I agree about _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ getting better. I stopped watching the first season because it was pretty bad, and so many episodes seemed like bad retreads of the original series. **M_A_S\*H** definitely improved after the first couple of seasons. They didn’t really know what they were doing at first, they had superfluous characters, and that awful canned laugh track. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/26 "2015-03-11T11:57:40Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > This - and, even more, _Star Trek: The Next Generation_. The first season was frequently moderately awful, and rarely good; even the second was fairly uneven, though better. After that, they started doing generally good to great episodes. Basically all the Treks\* have the same arc. Even the “bad ones” (Voyager and Enterprise) got less bad as they went on. They all take at least a season to figure out what works. I’d actually say DS9 had the least bad first season. It was still the weakest season of the series, but the difference in quality is less than with TNG, Voyager or Enterprise. \*(I’ve watched TOS, but I don’t think I watched the episodes in order, so I can’t really say if its true there) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/27 "2015-03-11T12:17:31Z")
The Simpsons–the early ones are…well, a bit crude. I think it took a season or two before it really hit its stride. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/28 "2015-03-11T12:35:11Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > The Simpsons–the early ones are…well, a bit crude. I think it took a season or two before it really hit its stride. If it got better consistently across its run, after 25 years it would be now approaching some sort of cartoon apotheosis. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/29 "2015-03-11T12:55:42Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > If it got better consistently across its run, after 25 years it would be now approaching some sort of cartoon apotheosis. It got better. Then over the shark in Season 8 and plumbed depths for at least 10 seasons. Some people saw it clawed back around Season 20, but I’d long since stopped caring. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/30 "2015-03-11T13:05:40Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > The Simpsons–the early ones are…well, a bit crude. I think it took a season or two before it really hit its stride. Sticking with the Animation Train: Bob’s Burgers had a pretty OK first season, A spectacular second season, and the third season is going quite well too IMO ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/31 "2015-03-11T14:41:07Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > This was the first thing that came to mind. > > I’m told the same holds for _Farscape_, but so far I haven’t made it past the first few episodes to know if I agree. _ **Farscape** _ is a show people seem to either love or hate with not much in-between. The first season was the weakest. Like most Sci-Fi shows it had to build the universe. However I would say there was plenty of quality from the beginning. Later seasons were fine for the dedicated viewer but they became increasingly uninviting to casual viewers. Although an ensemble cast, the main protagonist was John Crichton and the main antagonist became Scorpius. However as the seasons progressed the show introduced an exact copy of Crichton and for a while both existed simultaneously. Episodes, as broadcast, would alternate each week between half the cast and one Crichton and then next week the other half the cast with the other Crichton. In a similar fashion there was a real Scorpius plus he also existed as Harvey a “Neural Clone” - one in each Crichton - plus Harvey still existed even after the “Neural Clone Chip” which created him was removed from Crichton… Then there was the overall aim of Crichton to return to Earth. Repeatedly Crichton would return to Earth only for it to be revealed it was an artificial construct inserted by aliens testing Crichton or trying to trick him. So those that like the show, follow it closely and understand the increasingly confusing (but ultimately understandable) plot enjoy it. Those who hate it - sometimes on the dismissive grounds all the aliens are just muppets - often find it impenetrable. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/32 "2015-03-11T14:48:21Z")
> [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](#): > > Late Night with Conan O’Brien I was going to say _Late Night with David Letterman_ (the NBC show, specifically), since I thought Dave was at the top of his game right around the time of the move from NBC to CBS. I didn’t watch Conan regularly all the way to the end, but from when I did watch, I kind of thought he hit his peak right before Andy left the show. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/33 "2015-03-11T15:24:01Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Basically all the Treks\* have the same arc. Even the “bad ones” (Voyager and Enterprise) got less bad as they went on. They all take at least a season to figure out what works. I’d say that’s true of most shows, Trek or not. The first season is usually somewhat uneven and rocky, but by the beginning of the second season, the show’s found its sea legs, and for the next 2-3 seasons or so, the show gets better and better, with the show usually peaking somewhere in season 5. From there, the 6th season is usually not quite as great as the 5th, and the 7th is usually a real letdown, as the show’s usually clearly on the way out by that point. Some shows take it longer- I’d say TBBT is somewhere around the season 6 point, even though they’re in the 8th season, and other shows peak earlier and go away earlier. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/34 "2015-03-11T15:36:36Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > \*(I’ve watched TOS, but I don’t think I watched the episodes in order, so I can’t really say if its true there) TOS actually worked in the opposite direction. The first two seasons were excellent, once they realized what they had in the Trinity (Kirk, Spock and Bones). The last season (which wasn’t even going to happen before the Trimble Mail Flood) suffered from some horribly idiotic writing and plots, not to mention the overall realization that it really was going to be the last season. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/35 "2015-03-11T16:02:30Z")
**Agents of SHIELD** mostly had a hideous first season, but improved towards then end. Now it is essential viewing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/36 "2015-03-11T16:10:20Z")
Ignoring series VII onwards, which came back after a long break minus one of the creators, I’d say Red Dwarf got consistently better. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/37 "2015-03-11T16:14:59Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’d say that’s true of most shows, Trek or not. The first season is usually somewhat uneven and rocky, but by the beginning of the second season, the show’s found its sea legs, and for the next 2-3 seasons or so, the show gets better and better, with the show usually peaking somewhere in season 5. > > From there, the 6th season is usually not quite as great as the 5th, and the 7th is usually a real letdown, as the show’s usually clearly on the way out by that point. Describes Next Generation to a T. I’d put their peak at seasons 3-4. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/38 "2015-03-11T16:19:13Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I agree about _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ getting better. I stopped watching the first season because it was pretty bad, and so many episodes seemed like bad retreads of the original series. > > **M_A_S\*H** definitely improved after the first couple of seasons. They didn’t really know what they were doing at first, they had superfluous characters, and that awful canned laugh track. MASH improved, but definitely followed the typical trend of peaking in the middle or so. I think seasons 4,5, 6, and 7 are about the top. 8-11 felt like add-ons, though I do not hate them or believe they declined as much as some folks say. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/39 "2015-03-11T23:11:21Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > _ **Farscape** _ is a show people seem to either love or hate with not much in-between. > > The first season was the weakest. Like most Sci-Fi shows it had to build the universe. However I would say there was plenty of quality from the beginning. > > Later seasons were fine for the dedicated viewer but they became increasingly uninviting to casual viewers. > > Although an ensemble cast, the main protagonist was John Crichton and the main antagonist became Scorpius. However as the seasons progressed the show introduced an exact copy of Crichton and for a while both existed simultaneously. Episodes, as broadcast, would alternate each week between half the cast and one Crichton and then next week the other half the cast with the other Crichton. > > In a similar fashion there was a real Scorpius plus he also existed as Harvey a “Neural Clone” - one in each Crichton - plus Harvey still existed even after the “Neural Clone Chip” which created him was removed from Crichton… > > Then there was the overall aim of Crichton to return to Earth. Repeatedly Crichton would return to Earth only for it to be revealed it was an artificial construct inserted by aliens testing Crichton or trying to trick him. > > So those that like the show, follow it closely and understand the increasingly confusing (but ultimately understandable) plot enjoy it. Those who hate it - sometimes on the dismissive grounds all the aliens are just muppets - often find it impenetrable. > > TCMF-2L I agree, but I wanted to add that as getting crazier and crazier, and generally better and better, there are some stumbles here and there. IMO most during poison boob ladys run as a main antagonist, if I’m not misremembering. It ends on a high note though, with a 182 min long, two part mini-series. (Btw, Scorpius is a fantastic antagonist, jumping from being enemy, collaborator, fellow refugee, confidante(via the clone), jazz drummer… and generally just being creepy.) ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727/40 "2015-03-11T23:19:58Z")
_Jericho_ started out as one cliche after another but it got good, then got canceled, then got reinstated by fan demand, then was killed by the writer’s strike. Still sad about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-became-better-over-time/714727.md?page=3)