# TV shows that got worse as they became more popular **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2025, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305 "2025-04-21T13:53:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/101 "2025-06-23T12:54:35Z")
I think the NCIS team did a great job creating characters and filling them with the right people. Kudos, also, for finding good replacements. Kate/Ziva was actually an improvement for me, and the Ziva era was the best in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/102 "2025-06-23T12:58:41Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > A show appeals strongly to a small group of people - but since that’s not enough to make the show really popular, it’s retooled to appeal to more people, which makes it appeal less to the original small audience. Thus it “becomes worse” to them, at the same time that it “becomes popular.” Thanks for what impresses me as a reasonable explanation. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/103 "2025-06-23T13:06:30Z")
> [@solost](#): > > What was the ‘Abby exposed Gibbs’ storyline? I know there were IRL problems between Pauley Perrette and Mark Harmon on set. Did they write a version of that into the storyline of the show? IIRC, she uncovered evidence that Gibbs had performed an unsanctioned assassination to avenge the murder of his wife and daughter. He knew that she knew, and she knew he knew that she knew, so the whole thing was swept under the rug. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/104 "2025-06-23T13:07:29Z")
Didn’t everybody know? ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/105 "2025-06-23T13:10:12Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > IIRC, she uncovered evidence that Gibbs had performed an unsanctioned assassination to avenge the murder of his wife and daughter. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/106 "2025-06-23T13:10:13Z")
Don’t think so, since he could have been charged with premeditated murder. They may have suspected, but there was no proof. (I’m relying on old memories here.) ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/107 "2025-06-23T13:18:53Z")
Local x.3 (ION network) has a NCIS marathon Sundays – I sometimes watch. I like Bishop. My fondness for Jessica Knight is somewhat due to her playing Nyssa al Ghul on _Arrow_. Although I like Dr Palmer the shipping with her seems off to me. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/108 "2025-06-23T13:19:49Z")
I have _never_ watched NCIS but it is impressive that the show has aired as long as it has (since 2003), and has multiple spin-offs. And it originated in another CBS show called JAG, which started in 1995. So it’s a thirty-year-old franchise that seems to have no sign of ending soon. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/109 "2025-06-23T13:23:18Z")
Glad you liked it ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/110 "2025-06-23T13:34:49Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Don’t think so, since he could have been charged with premeditated murder. > > They may have suspected, but there was no proof. (I’m relying on old memories here.) It happened in Mexico so anyone who knew couldn’t do anything about it. I’m fuzzy about the details but I do know multiple people knew. It came up more than once. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/111 "2025-06-23T13:36:53Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Local x.3 (ION network) has a NCIS marathon Sundays – I sometimes watch. > I like Bishop. My fondness for Jessica Knight is somewhat due to her playing Nyssa al Ghul on _Arrow_. Although I like Dr Palmer the shipping with her seems off to me. > > Brian I’ve watched it late night on Ion a lot more than I ever did when it was on. It’s the perfect show to put on when I don’t feel like investing energy into a new show. I don’t feel bad if I doze off. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/112 "2025-06-23T14:26:52Z")
Abby completed her report, submitted it to the director, and he sat on it. She fulfilled her obligation. She did not, however, cc it to the Mexican Federales. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/113 "2025-06-23T23:16:27Z")
I kinda hated it when they made Margaret one of “The Good Guys” on MASH. Like, “What the hell happened to her?” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/114 "2025-06-24T11:35:16Z")
I may catch a lot of flak for this, but **Westworld**. The first season was very good. When the “twist” was revealed, that should have pretty much ended the series. It always felt to me as if they were trying to figure out where the hell the show was going after that point, and never did figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/115 "2025-06-24T12:13:21Z")
No, I agree about Westworld. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/116 "2025-06-24T12:27:12Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I may catch a lot of flak for this, but **Westworld**. The first season was very good. When the “twist” was revealed, that should have pretty much ended the series. It always felt to me as if they were trying to figure out where the hell the show was going after that point, and never did figure it out. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > No, I agree about Westworld. Thirding Westworld. It really went off the rails after that first season. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/117 "2025-06-24T12:27:39Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I may catch a lot of flak for this, but **Westworld**. The first season was very good. When the “twist” was revealed, that should have pretty much ended the series. It always felt to me as if they were trying to figure out where the hell the show was going after that point, and never did figure it out. No flak at all. The first season was amazing. The second season started on a potentially promising note and then spiralled rapidly downward. The third season went off in a completely different direction and got lost. The fourth season started awful and just got worse and worse. Thankfully the fifth season got cancelled. My impression is the same as yours - they didn’t know how to continue the series and were just winging it. Which is a pity because there were a few decent ideas buried in the dreck of the second and third seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/118 "2025-06-24T12:49:17Z")
I agree as well about **Westworld** , with the caveat that I loved the views, the world-building, of the other parks (Africa world? It’s been a while). Plot-wise, though, a frustrating hot mess. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/119 "2025-06-24T16:44:33Z")
I’ll be a voice of dissent… I agree season 2 of Westworld was terrible… truly I laughed out loud at a lot of it… but I really enjoyed season 3. I liked the exploration of the wider world. I think I lost HBO before season 4 and just watched a recap of youtube series on it and it sounded at the very least uneven. ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dingbang1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang1)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305/120 "2025-06-24T17:57:22Z")
MASH always stands out to me as an example of how long running shows deteriorate partly because of their stars’ vanity. In addition to Alda All the Time ruining that series, you could see the original gritty realism of the show give way to softer, more pleasant aesthetics, especially with appearances. It was obvious that Loretta Swit didn’t want to be the bitchy nurse with no makeup and her hair pulled back every week after she became famous. So she got a nice looking, more feminine hairstyle, clothing, and makeup that was no longer realistic for the setting of a field hospital in wartime. The overall realism of the show fell off sharply at the same time, with much fewer outdoor scenes actually shot outdoors, filmed instead on studio sets that looked super fake. I suppose that was partly for cost savings, but I suspect it was also because the stars didn’t want to be hauled out to the backlot on hot California days to shoot outside. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tv-shows-that-got-worse-as-they-became-more-popular/1017305.md?page=7)