# TVAA's The Matrix Explained **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077 "2003-11-08T15:23:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/21 "2003-11-08T19:35:22Z")
Ok guys… complain about matrix elsewhere… we chose to like it… even when the story is full of holes. Now let TVAA try to explain some stuff… thou I know not why he would be more qualified to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Iamthat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Iamthat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iamthat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/22 "2003-11-08T20:44:12Z")
Yes the ‘world’ as we understand it is a contruct. The matrix borrows frim Zen/Buddhsim/Vedanta/Nondual etc. philosophies in stating this existence is an illusion, and then adds “evil doers”. If you’re totally fooled in believing that you ‘know’ the world (matrix) is real you don’t know it as the matrix. The matrix understood for what it is, as the matrix only exists for the enlightened. The enlightened know the matrix as merely a mental phenomena. They know they are all the characters and all alone in the confinds of their own mind. One could only have the view point of one character at a time, since there is no “objective” perspective, unless a god is evoked. But most think/believe, claim to know, that they are emboided beings on a physically real world interacting with similar embodied beings. They take the ‘existence’ as real. The path to the door out of the matrix is the gradual recognition that the real ‘you’ is not to be found in any of your observations, but rather IS the observer. You are a witness to the dream, not the dream. In the matrix the matrix is in some sense better then the truth because the truth is full of pain and deception. In Zen/Nondualism the reverse is the case; pain and suffering is identifing with the illusion and taking it as real. The truth is blissful union with the true self. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/23 "2003-11-08T20:52:32Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** Whatever philosophical discussions it may contain, this thread seems to be directly tied to discussions of a particular trilogy of movies, so…off to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/24 "2003-11-08T20:57:59Z")
Now that it’s in **Cafe Society** I would like to point out to everyone that there already exist threads in this forum more appropriate for saying whether you liked the films or not. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/25 "2003-11-08T21:20:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \* > > The machines supposedly use the humans as batteries, but where do they get food for the humans? Liquefied dead humans, mentioned in the very first movie. It’s a metaphor, just like the “batteries.” ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/26 "2003-11-08T21:27:15Z")
> [@](#): > > The Machines symbolize the concepts, beliefs, and ideologies of humankind. In order to understand and manipulate the world around us, we rely on ideas about how the world functions. They are the tools that we create, and we are absolutely dependent on them for our survival. > > When those ideas become sufficiently complex, though, they blind us to reality. Instead of using them as guides to the world in which we exist, altering and updating them as necessary, we begin to treat our creations as if they were reality themselves. Nah. They already made this movie, and called it _Fight Club_. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/27 "2003-11-08T21:32:24Z")
…and **SPOOFE** breaks the first rule… ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/28 "2003-11-08T21:41:59Z")
**Ludovic** The machines and man were fighting, which is why the sky became so clouded: an attempt to make the machines have no energy source. But the machines found an alternative: human energy, combined with a form of fusion. Once the machines had this set-up, why bother finding alternatives when the one they had satisfied their needs? ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/29 "2003-11-08T21:50:02Z")
And of course, _Fight Club_ came out over six months after _The Matrix_… ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/30 "2003-11-08T22:30:25Z")
Neo saves the world?! Jesus Christ! ---
**Author:** ![beajerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@beajerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beajerry)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/31 "2003-11-08T22:31:15Z")
Don’t forget Dark City. ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/32 "2003-11-08T23:43:01Z")
Not going to bother with spoiler tags, as I think TVAA’s OP makes adequately clear that _The Matrix Revolutions_ will be discussed in this thead. **Ludovic:** It was made very clear that the scorched sky didn’t just block out the sun- it was also a sh\*\*storm of electricity that would have instantly fried any machine that attempted to fly through it. Remember how all of the Sentinels and the ship itself were shorted out? In the short run, it was probably much simpler for the machines to use what was available to them (in other words, people) rather than start building mile-high towers into the upper atmosphere, shielded against the power of the storm. Now, whether the humans-as-batteries idea makes any logical sense in the first place is another issue entirely. TVAA: What did you think was the significance of Sati, the little Indian girl? My interpretation was that she represented the last part of humanity (“humanity” as in the nature of being human, not as in the population of human beings) that the sentient machines lacked- the ability to live without a rational purpose. She makes pretty things: that is her purpose, but it is one that does not benefit machine society, and therefore would have been deleted in the pre-_Revolutions_ machine world. For her to be able to exist in the Matrix without fear of deletion is for the machines to have accepted irrationality as something not to be thrown aside outright. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/33 "2003-11-09T01:02:02Z")
> [@](#): > > And of course, Fight Club came out over six months after The Matrix… … But the ideas I was referring to weren’t brought up until _Matrix Reloaded_. Refer to the scene in the Engineering level of Zion, betwixt Neo and the councilman. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/34 "2003-11-09T02:59:21Z")
I was merely saying that the sky thing emphasized my dislike of the humans-as-energy concept. What really makes it make no sense is that it violates the laws of thermodynamics (in that they use dead humans to feed the live ones.) Of course, unless that world has different laws of physics, in which case they should explain them, since the world is close enough to ours for me to _not_ suspend my disbelief. With regards to the OP, I am not saying that the movies cannot be taken as an allergory, I am merely saying that I don’t like allegory. I prefer things to not only be symbolic but also to be what they are. For instance, in Gangs of New York,The protagonist and antagonist are not only actual gang members, but in the final fight they, IMO symbolize both the entire gang culture and a way of American life that is irrevocably changing in the Civil War era. In addition, TVAA, your post appears to refute your previously stated constructionist philosophy: i.e., you previously opined that concepts not only represent their subcomponents, but actually _exist_. I, on the other hand, disagree. Even the most simple component of the universe does not exist, it is merely a referent to its subcomponents. I agree with your analysis that it is often difficult for people to imagine that the world can be any different than it is, and people’s acceptance of the Matrix is an example of this, but that’s a fairly obvious conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/35 "2003-11-09T05:44:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*And of course, _Fight Club_ came out over six months after _The Matrix_… \*\* It was actually slated to come out within a couple of weeks of “The Matrix”, but they pushed it back because of Columbine. ---
**Author:** ![captainQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@captainQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/captainQwark)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/36 "2003-11-09T05:44:56Z")
while we are discussing _The Matrix_ , does anybody know how the sky became scorched? ---
**Author:** ![dakravel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@dakravel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dakravel)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/37 "2003-11-09T06:53:52Z")
The machines main source of energy was the sun, so it was a last ditch attempt to stop the machines. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/38 "2003-11-09T07:06:10Z")
Yeah, but _how_? And don’t tell me no stinkin’ bastard Death Rays. I’ve had it up to my RECTUM with Death Rays. ---
**Author:** ![Bob55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bob55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob55)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/39 "2003-11-09T08:26:20Z")
Regarding the sky as an energy source - IIRC: When their ship passed through the clouds it lost energy as if it had been hit by an EMP, and the engines never restarted. I took this as meaning that even if something could penetrate the clouds it wouldn’t be able to funnel energy back down to the surface due to all of the electrical activity. ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077/40 "2003-11-09T08:57:52Z")
The humans literally sent hundreds of jets in the air equipped with…something (not quite sure exactly what it was) that shot black gas out. It’s actually shown in The Animatrix. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tvaas-the-matrix-explained/212077.md?page=3)