# Twickster, you're full of it. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 9, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086 "2010-11-09T20:22:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/41 "2010-11-09T21:40:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I were a mod, I’d not look kindly on asserting that your opinion is fact. > > When an adult is left with the care of a child, with the permission of that child’s parent, that adult stands _in loco parentis_ - “in the place of the parent” - for the purposes of both supervision and discipline. It is a long-standing proposition of Anglo-American common law that the parent of a minor child, _or one standing in loco parentis_, is justified in using a reasonable amount of force upon a child for the purpose of safeguarding or promoting the child’s welfare. Carpenter v. Commonwealth, 186 Va. 851 (1947); Boyd v. State, 88 Ala. 169, 7 So. 268, 269 (1890); R. v. Griffin, 11 Cox. Cr. Cas. 402, 403 (Assizes 1869); W. LaFave & A. Scott, Handbook on Criminal Law § 52, at 389-90 (1972). > > May the parent limit the use of otherwise legal exercise of force upon the child? > > A brief search doesn’t find any cases that directly address that point, but I do note that in states that permit corporal punishment in school, there is no criminal liability attached to a school official that administers corporal punishment in disregard of the parents’ wishes. In _Ingraham v. Wright_, 430 US 651 (1977), the Supreme Court held that such actions did not violate the constitutional ban against cruel and unusual punishment and was legally permissible. > > The vast majority of school districts that still permit corporal punishment do ask for parental permission, either by an “opt-in” (parents must explicitly permit spanking) or an “opt-out” (parents must explicitly deny permission). But these are matters of policy, not law. > > As a general proposition, then, legally one who stands _in loco parentis_ to a child has the legal privilege of appropriate physical punishment for that child. > > So when you said: > > You’re not really stating a fact. She may exercise that right by no longer leaving her child in the care of the boyfriend, but she can’t, by refusing to give permission, create a crime in the boyfriend’s actions. She can, in other words, remove the child from the situation. Which no one doubted. But her order to the boyfriend not to spank does not, so far as I can tell, have any particular legal effect. (Obviously, she may have some sort of breach of contract claim against him if she agreed that he’d care for the child without spanking). > > Which of these legal principles did you analyze before asserting your legal opinion? This is all obfuscatory horsehit. Does she have a right to tell her boyfriend not to spank her kid, yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/42 "2010-11-09T21:40:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What did I say about her legal rights that was factually incorrect? Basically all I said was that she has a right to tell her boyfriend not to spank her kid. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is all obfuscatory horsehit. Does she have a right to tell her boyfriend not to spank her kid, yes or no? As a matter of free speech, yes, she certainly does. But that’s not all you said. You also said: > [@Diogenes](#): > > He’s not the boy’s legal parent. She is. The right to make those decisions belongs to her **and her alone**. Full stop. That is factually incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/43 "2010-11-09T21:40:53Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I’m sure **Dio** will be back shortly to totally blow **Bricker** ’s post out of the water. Right, **Dio**? Or maybe to apologize to **Twickster**? One of those things has to happen, right? Oh, I thought you knew **Dio**? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/44 "2010-11-09T21:41:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What did I say about her legal rights that was factually incorrect? Basically all I said was that she has a right to tell her boyfriend not to spank her kid. Please read Bricker’s post above. The fact that she could talk to him about not doing it is not because it is illegal. Your posts were clearly stating that the legality of the situation was the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/45 "2010-11-09T21:42:41Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I’m sure **Dio** will be back shortly to totally blow **Bricker** ’s post out of the water. Right, **Dio**? Or maybe to apologize to **Twickster**? One of those things has to happen, right? His post was totally off point. It still remains a fact that the OP’s boyfriend was not the legal parent of the child, and it still remains a fact that he does not ahve a right to spank the kid without her permission. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/46 "2010-11-09T21:44:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > His post was totally off point. It still remains a fact that the OP’s boyfriend was not the legal parent of the child, and it still remains a fact that he does not ahve a right to spank the kid without her permission. Wow. Just wow. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/47 "2010-11-09T21:47:02Z")
[quote=“Binarydrone, post:36, topic:560086”] [LIST=1] [li]No one was throwing rocks at the OP.[/li][/quote] yes they were. Especially you. > [@](#): > > No one was telling her that she had no right to tell the boyfriend not to _spank_ the kid. That’s EXACTLY what they were dooing and continue to do. > [@](#): > > You are not the internet knight in shining armor. No one needs you to defend them or come to their rescue. I never thought I was, and it’s not against board rules to defend somebody. > [@](#): > > It is true that a lot of people did not agree with the OP, but they were doing so in a pretty civil way. You dropped into that thread made constructive discussion for all practical purposes impossible and were called on it by a Mod. I was being perfectly civil. All of the unvil posts in that thread were directed AT me, not by me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/48 "2010-11-09T21:50:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As a matter of free speech, yes, she certainly does. > > But that’s not all you said. You also said: > > That is factually incorrect. Wrong. Every word of that is factually correct. It is not legal to spank somebody else’s kid without their permission. That was certainly the law when I was a teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/49 "2010-11-09T21:55:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Wrong. Every word of that is factually correct. It is not legal to spank somebody else’s kid without their permission. That was certainly the law when I was a teacher. How long ago and where? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/50 "2010-11-09T21:56:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > His post was totally off point. It still remains a fact that the OP’s boyfriend was not the legal parent of the child, and it still remains a fact that he does not ahve a right to spank the kid without her permission. Legally, _ **yes he does** _, _as long as the child is left in his care_. At which point \*she \*has the legal right to no longer leave the child in his care if he declines to stop disciplining the child in a way of which she does not approve. At least if **Bricker** ’s correct. And since he’s the one with a, you know, law degree, I’m gonna give slightly more creedence to his interpretation than to a man who proudly considers his posts to be his cites. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/51 "2010-11-09T21:56:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Wrong. Every word of that is factually correct. It is not legal to spank somebody else’s kid without their permission. That was certainly the law when I was a teacher. It is legal to spank your own child if you are a common law parent to that child which he may be depending on the jurisdiction. This is what Bricker was trying to get across above. Dio, in all seriousness, are you trying to see how far you can push the mods and other posters? I really don’t understand what you are trying to do here. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/52 "2010-11-09T21:59:35Z")
> [@prettydorky](#): > > I did kind of feel piled-on, actually. _someone_ said that I was using my boyfriend as a dildo and a babysitter. Someone flat out called me absurd. I did get the feeling people were saying, to paraphrase, that I had no right to tell my boyfriend not to spank my kid. But I can understand that people didn’t mean legally. While I thought \*\*Dio \*\* was probably just playing devil’s advocate, I appreciated his suggesting people stop piling up on me. Well, that is fair enough. In the interest of full disclosure I was the babysitter/dildo guy. But what I said was “This question is not a bullying tactic, it is at the very heart of the issues that this thread raises. Namely, what is the role that is expected of the boyfriend here? Has be just been a glorified babysitter and dildo for the past 3 years or is he a part of a household. These things matter.” Granted that is a lot on the harsh side, but still a question that seems like has not been answered in that thread. Anyway, I do apologize for the way that came off. I am sure that you have a loving relationship with your boyfriend. I was more trying to get at what I saw as a larger issue. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/53 "2010-11-09T22:00:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How long ago and where? Minnesota ten years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/54 "2010-11-09T22:02:36Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > It is legal to spank your own child if you are a common law parent to that child which he may be depending on the jurisdiction. This is what Bricker was trying to get across above. > > Dio, in all seriousness, are you trying to see how far you can push the mods and other posters? I really don’t understand what you are trying to do here. What pisses me off is that I get piled on lately for any little thing I say. I have to defend every post, and then I get accused of hijacking for defending every post. Now the mods are joinong in. I didn’t say anything inappropriate in that thread. I defended the OP from a mob. Seriously, all it boils down to was that I thought it was inappropriate for people to tell her she was wrong t be mad about her boyfriend spanking her kid, or that she no legal right to deny permission for him to spank her kid. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/55 "2010-11-09T22:04:24Z")
in California. PC 273d. (a) Any person who willfully inflicts upon a child any cruel or inhuman corporal punishment or an injury resulting in a traumatic condition is guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, four, or six years, or in a county jail for not more than one year, by a fine of up to six thousand dollars ($6,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine. Any person… ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/56 "2010-11-09T22:04:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What pisses me off is that I get piled on lately for any little thing I say. I have to defend every post, and then I get accused of hijacking for defending every post. Now the mods are joinong in. I didn’t say anything inappropriate in that thread. I defended the OP from a mob. I can understand how you feel like you are being piled on, I really can. You could, however, try, for lust a little while to lay off and give the ‘I’m always right’ schtick a break. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/57 "2010-11-09T22:08:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What pisses me off is that I get piled on lately for any little thing I say. I have to defend every post, and then I get accused of hijacking for defending every post. Now the mods are joinong in. I didn’t say anything inappropriate in that thread. I defended the OP from a mob. Seriously, all it boils down to was that I thought it was inappropriate for people to tell her she was wrong t be mad about her boyfriend spanking her kid, or that she no legal right to deny permission for him to spank her kid. What you post is rarely “any little thing”. Most of what you post is stated in absolute and often inflammatory terms and concerns things you seem to know little about. Spare us the put-upon act. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/58 "2010-11-09T22:08:47Z")
I don’t lust for it. 9 times out of 10 I honestly don’t expect my posts to amount to anything. My opinions may be strong, but whose aren’t around here? The literal parsing of every word I post gets annoying too. I’m hyperbolic and emphatic, and people jump on that like it mans someything. If I say “everybody likes ice cream,” I get 50 posts from people saying they HATE ice cream and how dare I say everybody likes it. I’m not looking for this shit, it just happens. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/59 "2010-11-09T22:08:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I get piled on lately for any little thing I say. I have to defend every post, and then I get accused of hijacking for defending every post. [Bull!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13121430#post13121430) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/60 "2010-11-09T22:09:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Minnesota ten years ago. Was that when they standardized state laws and declared a freeze on any changes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086.md?page=4)