# Twickster, you're full of it. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 9, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086 "2010-11-09T20:22:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/61 "2010-11-09T22:09:08Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > in California. PC 273d. (a) Any person who willfully inflicts upon a child any cruel > or inhuman corporal punishment or an injury resulting in a traumatic > condition is guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment > in the state prison for two, four, or six years, or in a county jail > for not more than one year, by a fine of up to six thousand dollars > ($6,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine. > > Any person… I’m no lawyer, but I don’t see how that applies, since any person would exclude parents too. And the original discussion focused on a spanking that would be allowed for a parent but not a pseudo step parent. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/62 "2010-11-09T22:11:20Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The literal parsing of every word I post gets annoying too. I’m hyperbolic and emphatic, and people jump on that like it mans someything. If I say “everybody likes ice cream,” I get 50 posts from people saying they HATE ice cream and how dare I say everybody likes it. > [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > [Bull!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13121430#post13121430) I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/63 "2010-11-09T22:13:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Was that when they standardized state laws and declared a freeze on any changes? **Dio** ’s recollections of his personal experiences are always automatically universalized. I think it’s in the constitution. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I rest my case. [/QUOTE] I would love to see you rest a case, any case. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/64 "2010-11-09T22:13:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Wrong. Every word of that is factually correct. It is not legal to spank somebody else’s kid without their permission. That was certainly the law when I was a teacher. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/65 "2010-11-09T22:13:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m hyperbolic and emphatic, and people jump on that like it mans someything. Then why in God’s name do you hold on to and grasp every single thing you say like it’s gospel for fear that backing down on one of those hyperbolic statements means declaring defeat? If you’d stop pulling shit like that, you’d encounter 80% less hostility. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/66 "2010-11-09T22:13:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Was that when they standardized state laws and declared a freeze on any changes? As far as I know there haven’t been any changes. I haven’t read anything about corporal punishment without parental consent being legalized in schools or day care centers. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/67 "2010-11-09T22:17:11Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > in California. PC 273d. (a) Any person who willfully inflicts upon a child any cruel > or inhuman corporal punishment or an injury resulting in a traumatic > condition is guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment > in the state prison for two, four, or six years, or in a county jail > for not more than one year, by a fine of up to six thousand dollars > ($6,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine. > > Any person… Note the qualifying language “…cruel and inhuman corporal punishment or an injury resulting in a traumatic condition…” does not mean any physical punishment whatsoever. It means only that which would be considered cruel and inhuman, or that which inflicts injury resulting in a traumatic condition. A traditional spanking probably isn’t enough to trigger that statute. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/68 "2010-11-09T22:17:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > As far as I know there haven’t been any changes. I haven’t read anything about corporal punishment without parental consent being legalized in schools or day care centers. And _I_ didn’t read anything about schools or day care centers in the original OP. Funny, that. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/69 "2010-11-09T22:18:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I were a mod, I’d not look kindly on asserting that your opinion is fact. > > When an adult is left with the care of a child, with the permission of that child’s parent, that adult stands _in loco parentis_ - “in the place of the parent” - for the purposes of both supervision and discipline. It is a long-standing proposition of Anglo-American common law that the parent of a minor child, _or one standing in loco parentis_, is justified in using a reasonable amount of force upon a child for the purpose of safeguarding or promoting the child’s welfare. Carpenter v. Commonwealth, 186 Va. 851 (1947); Boyd v. State, 88 Ala. 169, 7 So. 268, 269 (1890); R. v. Griffin, 11 Cox. Cr. Cas. 402, 403 (Assizes 1869); W. LaFave & A. Scott, Handbook on Criminal Law § 52, at 389-90 (1972). > > May the parent limit the use of otherwise legal exercise of force upon the child? > > A brief search doesn’t find any cases that directly address that point, but I do note that in states that permit corporal punishment in school, there is no criminal liability attached to a school official that administers corporal punishment in disregard of the parents’ wishes. In _Ingraham v. Wright_, 430 US 651 (1977), the Supreme Court held that such actions did not violate the constitutional ban against cruel and unusual punishment and was legally permissible. > > The vast majority of school districts that still permit corporal punishment do ask for parental permission, either by an “opt-in” (parents must explicitly permit spanking) or an “opt-out” (parents must explicitly deny permission). But these are matters of policy, not law. > > As a general proposition, then, legally one who stands _in loco parentis_ to a child has the legal privilege of appropriate physical punishment for that child. Sorry, I dislike Dio’s posting style as much as the next person, but this is really poor logic. You did a “brief search”, couldn’t find anything, so you drew absolute conclusions based on a legal precedent in schools in states that allow corporal punishment? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/70 "2010-11-09T22:20:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And _I_ didn’t read anything about schools or day care centers in the original OP. > Funny, that. What’s the difference? A babysitter is a babysitter. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/71 "2010-11-09T22:21:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What’s the difference? A babysitter is a babysitter. Do I annoy you enough that you have me blocked? No, wait you answered one of my posts… ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/72 "2010-11-09T22:21:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My opinions may be strong, but whose aren’t around here? If I may, “strong” is not precisely the quality of your opinions that is to blame for your role as perennial whipping boy. More likely suspects are “hastily formed,” “ill-considered,” “brashly announced,” “exasperatingly inflexible,” and “obstinately defended.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/73 "2010-11-09T22:23:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My opinions may be strong, but whose aren’t around here? The literal parsing of every word I post gets annoying too. I’m hyperbolic and emphatic, and people jump on that like it mans someything. If I say “everybody likes ice cream,” I get 50 posts from people saying they HATE ice cream and how dare I say everybody likes it. A clever person would perhaps take this as a cue to stop posting hyperbolic “facts” that are based entirely on their own limited experience and then refusing to believe any contrary evidence including other people with directly contradictory experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/74 "2010-11-09T22:24:15Z")
My opinions are _not_ ill-considered. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/75 "2010-11-09T22:24:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My opinions are _not_ ill-considered. In your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/76 "2010-11-09T22:25:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My opinions are _not_ ill-considered. Maybe, but their expression _IS_. Which you admitted to. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/77 "2010-11-09T22:26:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My opinions are _not_ ill-considered. Yeah they are. And they are almost always wrong. Especially about law. Remember how you argued with me that the Flag Code is not law…even after I cited the statute? Things like that piss people off. And really make you look bad. You repeat the same pattern of behavior over and over, so now you are reaping what you’ve sown. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/78 "2010-11-09T22:27:24Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Sorry, I dislike Dio’s posting style as much as the next person, but this is really poor logic. You did a “brief search”, couldn’t find anything, so you drew absolute conclusions based on a legal precedent in schools in states that allow corporal punishment? Hey, it’s a message board. **Bricker** ’s got to charge for anything more than a “brief search.” Actually this brings up a great point. Is it any better for someone to discuss legal advice and/or issues just because they’re a lawyer, or used to be a lawyer? Can a real-estate lawyer discuss constitutional law? Or maybe…just maybe…and I know this is crazy, bear with me–terms like “legal right” shouldn’t be thrown around at all when we don’t know all the facts of a situation? Or case law shouldn’t be thrown around when we don’t even know what state the situation is occurring in? I dunno. But you’re right, it does seem like sometimes legalese gets thrown around pretty easily on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/79 "2010-11-09T22:29:18Z")
Corporal punishment in school is legal in 21 states. For the record. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086/80 "2010-11-09T22:31:21Z")
You can take this as criticism, insult or advise. **Diogenes the Cynic** , you are the most prolifically obstinate poster on all the Dope and many if not most long time posters think your pattern of arguing and nearly never admitting you are wrong makes you look like a joke. I don’t really care much, I don’t spend any time arguing with you usually but you really might want to take it down a notch or I think you can expect to still have many poster continue to distrust what you say and not bother to engage you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twickster-youre-full-of-it/560086.md?page=5)