# twickster's "knock it the fuck off" **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 11, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624 "2013-11-11T05:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/41 "2013-11-11T19:14:42Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’m betting Cecil can find dozens of intelligent ways to get his point across without resorting to that level of language _when acting as_ our beloved leader. But then, Cecil is smarter and more articulate than we are. I wonder if Cecil ever publicly told anyone to knock the f off? If not, I wonder why? Cecil is Cecil. I don’t know if you were a loyal reader of the column from before the message board. If you were you would know he at the very least teetered over the edge of breaking rule#1 when responding to questions. He is not bound by earthly rules. But its irrelevant, he is not a Mod and as far as I know has never dealt with the mundane tasks that mods have to deal with. And it’s irrelevant if there is another way to say it if it’s not against the rules. Then it’s just a matter of your personal preference. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/42 "2013-11-11T19:20:48Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > The rule against personal insults has never been strictly confined to name-calling. (If it was, GD would be nothing but “fuck you!” “no, fuck _you!_” ad infinitum.) I don’t think I can ever remember a time when you could tell someone to fuck off outside of the Pit (in a non-joking context) without a mod stepping in. By the way, I’m not arguing that ‘fuck off’ should never be moderated. But I disagree that it’s an insult. If ‘fuck off’ is an insult then I would think so is ‘get out of my fucking face’ and that seems laughable to me. I would consider it something like incendiary language, but not an insult. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/43 "2013-11-11T19:27:08Z")
I ordinarily wouldn’t care, but after [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16611952&postcount=66), I do. Twickster can’t go around punishing people for using language that isn’t against the rules and then use it herself. I mean, that moderation was shit by itself (which is why I just reported it) but combined with the hypocrisy is even worse. Twickster is probably the most foul mouthed mod on this board. She should not be punishing anyone for language use. And I don’t think that Giraffe’s comments are relevant to my post. She specifically cited language use in the Warning (without so much as even a mod note), not group insults. And we absolutely do not want mods to punish based on instinct and then come up with the reasoning later. BTW, “Fuck off” is explicitly forbidden in the Pit. When it comes to statements used against other posters, the rules in the Pit are the minimum. It stands to reason that if you can’t tell someone to fuck off in the Pit, you can’t say it to them outside the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/44 "2013-11-11T19:27:28Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Fuck off is not an insult. It’s an intensified version of “go away” and this is an attempt at semantic nitpicking in order to justify a moderating double standard. It could be an intensified version of go away but that usage is more common in Britain and Oz (where I believe kambuckta lives). It’s more likely to be an insult in the US. This might be part of the confusion. Similarly, the dreaded c-word is way less of a bad word in Britain. Moderation tends to be based on US usage since this is a US based board. Knock it the fuck off is vulgar but not an insult, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/45 "2013-11-11T19:29:40Z")
I think even in the US, in the construction “you can fuck off, too” the meaning is “don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split you” and not 'you are non-specifically a terrible person" ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/46 "2013-11-11T19:30:05Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > By the way, I’m not arguing that ‘fuck off’ should never be moderated. But I disagree that it’s an insult. If ‘fuck off’ is an insult then I would think so is ‘get out of my fucking face’ and that seems laughable to me. I would consider it something like incendiary language, but not an insult. Fuck off and die is one of the examples Ed gives as restricted language in the Pit (listed under fuck you and variants). If it’s restricted there I assume it’s restricted everywhere. So consider it a restricted phrase even if it’s not technically an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/47 "2013-11-11T19:36:41Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > By the way, I’m not arguing that ‘fuck off’ should never be moderated. But I disagree that it’s an insult. If ‘fuck off’ is an insult then I would think so is ‘get out of my fucking face’ and that seems laughable to me. I would consider it something like incendiary language, but not an insult. I agree that it’s not an insult. I don’t think “fuck you” is an insult either, strictly speaking. Both are sufficiently abusive that it’s reasonable to ban them as part of a larger rule against flaming outside of the Pit, which is what the board has always done, even if the name of the rule they use doesn’t exactly match the policy. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/48 "2013-11-11T19:43:02Z")
Right but the reason given for moderating kambuckta’s post was for insults. Not for violating a proscribed word ban and in my opinion, if the transgression there was for insults than twickster’s post is equally as insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/49 "2013-11-11T19:48:11Z")
I see parallels to a previous argument where the claim was made that if posters were not allowed to call other posters “trolls”, then moderators should have to follow the same rules. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/50 "2013-11-11T19:51:43Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Right but the reason given for moderating kambuckta’s post was for insults. Not for violating a proscribed word ban and in my opinion, if the transgression there was for insults than twickster’s post is equally as insulting. This is nitpicking. I would never let one poster tell another to fuck off. As noted, it’s not even allowed in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/51 "2013-11-11T19:52:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I see parallels to a previous argument where the claim was made that if posters were not allowed to call other posters “trolls”, then moderators should have to follow the same rules. The parallel would be if Moderators would be allowed to actually troll while regular members couldn’t. Moderators have to, as part of their job, stop trolls or troll behavior and describe why they did it. They do not have to use vulgar language or insults (although I don’t generally have a problem with it if they do.) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/52 "2013-11-11T19:53:01Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Right but the reason given for moderating kambuckta’s post was for insults. Not for violating a proscribed word ban and in my opinion, if the transgression there was for insults than twickster’s post is equally as insulting. Splitting hairs. If someone told me to fuck off, I’d feel insulted. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/53 "2013-11-11T19:54:43Z")
Twickster just reported back to me that the post I cited above as evidence of her hypocrisy of the subject is irrelevant because it is old. So I’m just pointing out here that it shows a pattern of behavior that is relevant to the problems with this moderation. She can do it herself, but she will punish other people. That just shouldn’t be. I also pointed out to her that I don’t just mention things because I expect something will happen. When something is egregiously wrong, I mention them to let you know how wrong I think it is, lest you think I support it. I may hope that this will change your behavior, but that isn’t required. And, in this case, we’ve done this dance many times, and we know that **twickster** will not see the problem, and the other mods either can’t or won’t do anything about it. The value is just in pointing out that we notice these sorts of things, so that maybe other more conscientious mods will notice why we dislike her moderation and try to do better, even if only to avoid a contentious ATMB thread. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/54 "2013-11-11T19:57:40Z")
Most of the regular members who replied to this thread don’t see anything wrong with the comment in question, either. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/55 "2013-11-11T20:07:57Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Most of the regular members who replied to this thread don’t see anything wrong with the comment in question, either. I wouldn’t go that far. I suspect most people would agree that **twickster** ’s post was unnecessarily rude. This is not exactly a singular phenomenon, though, so most of us didn’t bother to post our spit takes of shock at this part of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/56 "2013-11-11T20:33:47Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I’m of the opinion that “fuck off” is an insult and I would/will mod it as such if I ever see it. I’ll back up Idle, here. Say that to someone in Great Debates where I can see it and I’ll mod it… ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/57 "2013-11-11T20:50:20Z")
Jonathan, it’s odd that you say what you did, because you specifically popped into my mind when I was typing the sentence about mods being forceful without being rude or jerkish, and I almost called you out as an example of a moderator who can be extremely blunt, direct and forceful while not being a jerk in the way that twickster appeared. Obviously I haven’t seen every instance of modding that you have done since you took on the “job” of being a moderator, but in every instance that I have seen where you’ve been forceful and blunt, I never thought you were being a jerk or rude. And by the way, the whole issue about whether “knock it the fuck off” is an insult or not is not the point. I don’t think it is an insult. I just think it straddles the line of breaking the always-nebulous but important and necessary “don’t be a jerk” rule, especially in the context of a moderator note, and ESPECIALLY in the context of MPSIMS. MPSIMS is known to be a “cleaner” and “nicer” board where foul language of any kind is more harshly moderated, as BigT even pointed out. And there are a few other examples I can remember of things being moderated in MPSIMS specifically because the culture of that board is different than IMHO or others. And I’m fine with that. I don’t think a moderator note of “knock it the fuck off” would even be that bad in The Pit, and I probably wouldn’t think twice about it. In MPSIMS, it made me feel a little odd so I brought it up here. I agree that telling someone directly “fuck off” as was jokingly hurled at me is a direct insult that is disallowed even in The Pit. And I agree that “knock it the fuck off” is totally different in meaning and even tone than “fuck off,” but I still believe that as an act of official moderation, it is unpleasant and that the moderation and administration should strive for better. It seems that the moderators who have responded so far disagree with me and next time I see a moderator tell someone to “knock it the fuck off” or something similar, I won’t bring it up again. I just thought it was worth a 2nd look is all. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/58 "2013-11-11T21:55:06Z")
I see absolutely nothing inappropriate about **twickster** ’s post, either. Mind, that might be why they keep me in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/59 "2013-11-11T22:06:30Z")
Oh, where is **Manhattan** when we need him? ETA: Okay, having skimmed the whole thread, I see I’m not the first one here with that. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624/60 "2013-11-11T22:10:41Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Jonathan, it’s odd that you say what you did, because you specifically popped into my mind when I was typing the sentence about mods being forceful without being rude or jerkish, and I almost called you out as an example of a moderator who can be extremely blunt, direct and forceful while not being a jerk in the way that twickster appeared. Obviously I haven’t seen every instance of modding that you have done since you took on the “job” of being a moderator, but in every instance that I have seen where you’ve been forceful and blunt, I never thought you were being a jerk or rude. > > And by the way, the whole issue about whether “knock it the fuck off” is an insult or not is not the point. I don’t think it is an insult. I just think it straddles the line of breaking the always-nebulous but important and necessary “don’t be a jerk” rule, especially in the context of a moderator note, and ESPECIALLY in the context of MPSIMS. MPSIMS is known to be a “cleaner” and “nicer” board where foul language of any kind is more harshly moderated, as BigT even pointed out. And there are a few other examples I can remember of things being moderated in MPSIMS specifically because the culture of that board is different than IMHO or others. And I’m fine with that. I don’t think a moderator note of “knock it the fuck off” would even be that bad in The Pit, and I probably wouldn’t think twice about it. In MPSIMS, it made me feel a little odd so I brought it up here. > > I agree that telling someone directly “fuck off” as was jokingly hurled at me is a direct insult that is disallowed even in The Pit. And I agree that “knock it the fuck off” is totally different in meaning and even tone than “fuck off,” but I still believe that as an act of official moderation, it is unpleasant and that the moderation and administration should strive for better. > > It seems that the moderators who have responded so far disagree with me and next time I see a moderator tell someone to “knock it the fuck off” or something similar, I won’t bring it up again. I just thought it was worth a 2nd look is all. If it came out of the blue maybe I could see that. I just saw it as her responding in the style of the posters she was talking to. It was a note after all and nothing punitive. > [@Miller](#): > > I see absolutely nothing inappropriate about **twickster** ’s post, either. > > Mind, that might be why they keep me in the Pit. Yeah, sure. That’s why.:rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twicksters-knock-it-the-fuck-off/673624.md?page=4)