# Twin Peaks Returns - Parts 3 and 4 (Open spoilers! Enter at your own risk if you haven't seen them!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 22, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217 "2017-05-22T17:19:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/21 "2017-05-23T21:00:27Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > … > One thing. I really, really want to meet Mother! Are you certain about that? What if “Mother” is that thing that came out of the glass box and tore up that couple in NY? ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/22 "2017-05-23T21:46:30Z")
> [@Sefton](#): > > When the police investigated the apartment, they found the librarian’s head and the headless body of an unknown obese man. We know that the Medical Examiner couldn’t read the man’s fingerprints because the records were classified. We also know that the person Cooper has replaced (Dougie Jones) was obese and had disappeared for days. Was that Dougie Jones’ headless body in the apartment? The headless body in South Dakota was found during the first episode, but in Episode 3 we see Original Dougie with the prostitute in the empty house. Unless there some time travel involved, I don’t see how the body can be Dougie. The One-Armed Man’s remarks suggest that Dougie is being used—or was created—to thwart Cooper’s attempt to escape the Black Lodge. I can’t quite wrap my head around how that’s supposed to work, but it does imply that Dougie wouldn’t have been killed before he could fulfill that purpose (that’s assuming that the SD murders were committed by some agent of the Black Lodge/BOB/Evil Cooper/whatever). ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/23 "2017-05-23T21:48:34Z")
Someone on a TP FB group is saying that cash-out slot machines have been used since the 90s so Cooper must be in the past. I suppose that that could explain why nobody thought it odd that he asked for a payphone. Anyone know if that’s true about the slot machines? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/24 "2017-05-23T22:20:26Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Someone on a TP FB group is saying that cash-out slot machines have been used since the 90s so Cooper must be in the past. I suppose that that could explain why nobody thought it odd that he asked for a payphone. > > Anyone know if that’s true about the slot machines? Sheriff Truman was on a modern-style cellphone, so I’m going with “no”. All it tells us, probably, is that either David Lynch isn’t keeping up on his slot machines and decided that it was easier to change reality to match his script, or that the casino that they found to shoot in is behind the times (maybe buying second-hand machines). ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/25 "2017-05-23T23:38:36Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Sheriff Truman was on a modern-style cellphone, so I’m going with “no”. > > All it tells us, probably, is that either David Lynch isn’t keeping up on his slot machines and decided that it was easier to change reality to match his script, or that the casino that they found to shoot in is behind the times (maybe buying second-hand machines). I didn’t say that Sheriff Truman was in the 90s. I said that Cooper might be. He’s probably not, but Sheriff Truman’s cellphone has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/26 "2017-05-24T00:06:19Z")
“Is it… future… or is it… past?” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/27 "2017-05-24T00:11:50Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I didn’t say that Sheriff Truman was in the 90s. I said that Cooper might be. He’s probably not, but Sheriff Truman’s cellphone has nothing to do with it. I’ll grant that your objection is technically accurate for your hypothesis, but so far there’s no indication of multiple timelines except out-of-date slot machines. And there’s a full episode’s worth of content that says and then demonstrates that there’s a particular date and time at which the Doppelganger and Cooper are supposed to switch places, at which time, both Dougie and the Doppelganger vomit horribly, Cooper sees the car driving in North Dakota, etc. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/28 "2017-05-24T00:26:48Z")
We don’t know that they vomit simultaneously. It could be the same time and date years apart. Time in the universe of the lodges could work differently. I’m not saying that they are in different times, they’re probably not. I’m just saying that they could be, and cellphones, and sequential camera shots don’t disprove the idea. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/29 "2017-05-24T00:27:41Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Sheriff Truman was on a modern-style cellphone, so I’m going with “no”. > > All it tells us, probably, is that either David Lynch isn’t keeping up on his slot machines and decided that it was easier to change reality to match his script, or that the casino that they found to shoot in is behind the times (maybe buying second-hand machines). I noticed another odd anachronism—Darya talking on a landine phone in a motel before Evil Cooper comes in and kills her. I don’t think that stuff means anything. Lynch puts a lot of batshit-crazy stuff into his work, but he hasn’t played around with timelines on _Twin Peaks_. When the original series was being broadcast, someone on Usenet put together a “Twin Peaks Timeline” using Cooper’s announcements of the date and time in his messages to Diane, and visual clues like shots of clocks and calendars. IIRC, it all hung together and was pretty consistent. Of course, the Black Lodge is outside our spacetime continuum, so that doesn’t count. But I think it’s safe to assume that all the “real-world” stuff we see is happening in the same chronology. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/30 "2017-05-24T00:39:43Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > We don’t know that they vomit simultaneously. It could be the same time and date years apart. Time in the universe of the lodges could work differently. > > I’m not saying that they are in different times, they’re probably not. I’m just saying that they could be, and cellphones, and sequential camera shots don’t disprove the idea. Missed the edit window. I was going to add that there’s already been an indication that the Black Lodge is outside our timeline. In the prequel _Fire Walk With Me_, Annie appears in Laura’s bedroom and says, “The good Dale is in the lodge and he can’t leave. Write it in your diary.” That was before the real-world Cooper had even heard of the town of Twin Peaks. However, I still doubt that there’s anything wonky with the real-world chronology on TP. We haven’t seen any indications of that beyond minor anachronisms. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/31 "2017-05-24T05:20:07Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > I noticed another odd anachronism—Darya talking on a landine phone in a motel before Evil Cooper comes in and kills her. > … That’s meaningless. During that conversation (which evil-Cooper recorded) Ray mentions that he’s talking on a burner. I don’t think burners (cheap, disposable, pay as you go phones) were available until sometime after 2000. In any case evil-Cooper is obviously in the story’s main time line (along with Gordon, Albert, Denise, et al.) Regarding the real Cooper: In the red room, Mike twice says to Cooper “is it future, or is it past?”, which may mean nothing, or may be a clue. When Cooper is in the empty housing development (which must be either new, or abandoned because of the housing bubble) the hooker mentions his missing keys, wallet, and cellphone; yet the two guys who are trying to kill Dougie are using walkie talkies to communicate rather than cellphones. In current times they’d probably just use burner phones, which would actually be more secure for their purposes than the cheap analog walkies they appeared to be using. The hooker believes him to be ill, but doesn’t call for help, possibly indicating that either she has no cellphone, or she doesn’t want to use her personal phone (for obvious reasons) and doesn’t have a burner. Nowadays, a hooker would almost certainly use an anonymous burner for business. All of this may indicate a period during which only more affluent people, like Dougie, have cellphones, or a period where cellphones are relatively common but burners aren’t yet a thing. Add to that the fact that the people at the casino believe that he’s asking for a payphone and don’t seem to think that’s odd. Do casinos still have payphones? I don’t go to casinos so I don’t know. Of course it’s also possible that the writers didn’t think through the issue of cellphones too deeply. Then again, it almost seems like they tried to emphasize the issue of cellphones and anachronism with the incident with Lucy freaking out over the cellphone and Andy saying that this happens “over and over and over”. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/32 "2017-05-24T21:50:27Z")
> [@Sefton](#): > > When the police investigated the apartment, they found the librarian’s head and the headless body of an unknown obese man. We know that the Medical Examiner couldn’t read the man’s fingerprints because the records were classified. We also know that the person Cooper has replaced (Dougie Jones) was obese and had disappeared for days. Was that Dougie Jones’ headless body in the apartment? I thought they matched those prints to the principal who they put in jail. I assumed it was a second set of prints but wasn’t paying attention and don’t know where they came from. You guys prob don’t want to make it too easy for me but I’d buy you a piece of cherry pie if you would recap what we know about the various versions of Agent Cooper. ---
**Author:** ![Sefton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Sefton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sefton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/33 "2017-05-24T22:06:24Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I thought they matched those prints to the principal who they put in jail. I assumed it was a second set of prints but wasn’t paying attention and don’t know where they came from. > > You guys prob don’t want to make it too easy for me but I’d buy you a piece of cherry pie if you would recap what we know about the various versions of Agent Cooper. I take back my theory. I didn’t realize that it was Dougie Jones whose body dissolved in the Black Lodge. Since we saw Major Briggs’ floating head and the body’s fingerprints are kept secret by the military, it may be the body of Major Briggs. But that means he either survived the fire 25 years ago or that Cooper’s doppelganger kept the body from decomposing. Did Evil Cooper kidnap and torture Major Briggs? Also, the body appeared to have been shaved. Who could it be? ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/34 "2017-05-25T08:38:13Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > That’s meaningless. During that conversation (which evil-Cooper recorded) Ray mentions that he’s talking on a burner. I didn’t think it “meant” anything; it was just an odd thing that I noticed. I wondered why Darya didn’t have, or wasn’t using, a cellphone. It could be that Darya was afraid Evil Cooper was monitoring her calls (and he was; perhaps he had bugged the motel room phone earlier). > [@davidm](#): > > All of this may indicate a period during which only more affluent people, like Dougie, have cellphones, or a period where cellphones are relatively common but burners aren’t yet a thing. That’s certainly an interesting theory. I did notice that Lynch seemed to go out of his way to _not_ show cellphones during the Jade/Dougie/Cooper scenes. However, I’m still not buying it, partly because Jade appears to own a present-day Jeep Wrangler. There are several shots where the interior and dashboard are visible, and it looks like a fairly recent model. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/35 "2017-05-25T08:44:39Z")
I’m still holding that this is simply a matter of Lynch being a 71 year old man and not all hip to the smartphones and modern life. He wrote a slightly dated script because he’s a dated man. But I guess we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/36 "2017-05-25T13:19:57Z")
How long before Cooper snaps out of it and returns to Twin Peaks? He will…help investigate the murder of the lady/body in bed? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/37 "2017-05-25T17:56:35Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > How long before Cooper snaps out of it and returns to Twin Peaks? He will…help investigate the murder of the lady/body in bed? I think the coffee is the magic. Next episode he’ll be Dale Cooper, Special Agent once more. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/38 "2017-05-25T18:09:41Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I think the coffee is the magic. Next episode he’ll be Dale Cooper, Special Agent once more. But…the coffee didn’t do it, did it? Or was that unclear? I joked to my wife that it would be perfect if he put the coffee down and said, “That’s…damn fine coffee!” and returned to us. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/39 "2017-05-25T18:38:17Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > But…the coffee didn’t do it, did it? Or was that unclear? I joked to my wife that it would be perfect if he put the coffee down and said, “That’s…damn fine coffee!” and returned to us. I’m thinking there has to be more to it than that. Cooper can’t fully return to the real world until his doppelganger goes to the Black Lodge. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217/40 "2017-05-25T18:44:20Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > I’m thinking there has to be more to it than that. Cooper can’t fully return to the real world until his doppelganger goes to the Black Lodge. Has there been any indication that he’s still partly there (other than by acting weird)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twin-peaks-returns-parts-3-and-4-open-spoilers-enter-at-your-own-risk-if-you-havent-seen-them/787217.md?page=3)