# Twins separated at birth unknowingly marry each other **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 11, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180 "2008-01-11T20:55:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/21 "2008-01-12T01:23:11Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] If there was no genetic problem for the hypothetical children of these two people, why shouldn’t they have the choice to remain married, if they wanted to? [/QUOTE] I’ll give you that, but I will also cite that we’re pretty hardwired to put incest in the “Really Icky” bucket, Egyptians or no Egyptians, and that there are good biological reasons to do that as you point out in your original reference to genetic issues. Heck, our brains are programmed to try to look outside the family group for someone to pair with as shown by that Israeli study about kids that grow up together in kibbutzes, and (possibly) more than one study related to arranged marriages where the girl goes to live with the boy’s family which frequently end up being less fortuitous than marriages where the prospective happy couple aren’t raised together. _ponder_ Ah, bah, now you’re making me think fondly of the university libraries and their sociology/ethics caches of studies/ponderings despite the fact I haven’t been there since I graduated yonks ago, dammit. 😛 😃 **Mangetout** , why Norfolk – is this a hillbilly joke I’m being whooshed by? (What is the UK equivalent of hillbillies?) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/22 "2008-01-12T01:33:40Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] That said, it may have been their explicit choice to have the marriage annulled. [/QUOTE] Right. Or maybe even the state of the law in that jurisdiction is such that there is no discretion but to declare annullment once the fact of the degree of consanguinity is established. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/23 "2008-01-12T01:46:57Z")
[QUOTE=JRDelirious] Right. Or maybe even the state of the law in that jurisdiction is such that there is no discretion but to declare annullment once the fact of the degree of consanguinity is established. [/QUOTE] Doubtless, but it does sound like perhaps the couple explicitly chose to do it, rather than waiting for the law to impose it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/24 "2008-01-12T01:49:57Z")
[QUOTE=lizardling] **Mangetout** , why Norfolk – is this a hillbilly joke I’m being whooshed by? (What is the UK equivalent of hillbillies?) [/QUOTE] Pretty much. It’s where all the world’s turnips are grown. I’m not sure if they could be called _hillbillies_ though - as Norfolk is somewhat bereft of hills. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/25 "2008-01-12T03:56:49Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] They should be able to, morally if not legally, regardless of genetic problems, just so long as they avoid having children ( no children, no genetic issues, obviously ). But if they do choose to have children, our technology simply isn’t good enough to tell them with any reliability that they are safe. [/QUOTE] Well, yes, but that’s true of any partnership. One generation of inbreeding, unless they have some of the more simple recessive genetic disorders, is unlikely to uncover any horrible recessive genes. Inbreeding is a problem for a _population_, not necessarily for a single parent-offspring set. Our horror of incest, which leads us to imagine mutant children in a single generation, is more about what’s best for the species as a whole, and because it’s a really bad idea socially and psychologically, not because it’s troublesome for any given couple. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/26 "2008-01-12T21:55:31Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] I smell a load of bullshit. [/QUOTE] I too cannot believe this is “news.” Completely unverified friend-of-a-friend garbage being reported as truth… good job, media outlets. Is there any chance at all this is real? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/27 "2008-01-13T01:23:04Z")
> [@jackelope](#): > > Siamese. Yeah, but only at night. ::d&r:: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/28 "2008-01-13T01:43:23Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] Yeah, but only at night. ::d&r:: [/QUOTE] Oh no you don’t! _hurls rotten tomato, aiming slightly downward to account for ducking_ _wipes beer from monitor_ ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/29 "2008-01-13T02:15:47Z")
[QUOTE=Menocchio] One generation of inbreeding, unless they have some of the more simple recessive genetic disorders, is unlikely to uncover any horrible recessive genes. Inbreeding is a problem for a population, not necessarily for a single parent-offspring set. [/QUOTE] Exactly. From what I understand, we only think of incest like this as icky when we see the sibling being reared by our parents. Without that visual cue, there is no inherent barrier to brother sister relationships. As **Menocchio** has suggested, the risk of birth defects for such a relationship is extremely low. Inbreeding is more of a problem for populations than it is for individuals. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/30 "2008-01-13T08:42:25Z")
[QUOTE=jackelope] Siamese. [/QUOTE] Right, back-to-back. Neither knew the other existed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/31 "2008-01-13T10:36:09Z")
[QUOTE=jackelope] Siamese. [/QUOTE] I’m going to admit something right now that will completely verify what everyone here has always thought: I’m a total fucking idiot. The first, oh, three times I passed by or read this thread, I was incredibly confused. After all, wouldn’t they have at least noticed the scar from where they were separated? 😕 :smack: Hey, at least I finally caught on. ---
**Author:** ![shefDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@shefDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shefDave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/32 "2008-01-13T12:03:21Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Doubtless, but it does sound like perhaps the couple explicitly chose to do it, rather than waiting for the law to impose it. [/QUOTE] Under English law the marriage would have been void (as opposed to void_able_) anyway and had no legal standing. News reports saying the marriage was annulled are wrong, since you can’t annul a marriage that never existed. What will have happened is that the court will have made an order stating that the marriage was void. Although not necessary this is usually done for the avoidance of any doubt. Also, the [BBC report](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7182817.stm) does not state _who_ applied to court for the marriage to be declared void. English law allows anyone to apply for a court order that a marriage is void. Could be that someone else found out and decided that ‘something had to be done’. Or, considering how little information there is and how much political hay Lord Alton’s trying to make of this, the whole thing could be bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/33 "2008-01-13T12:26:40Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] My point is that a story of two people marrying and find out that they are twins (assuming it’s true) is such a freak occurrence that it’s not a good argument for changing this law. [/QUOTE] I don’t think this was being put forward as _the_ reason for changing the law (it didn’t crop up until a Lords debate), but as one example of consequences of the current secrecy. [QUOTE=Mangetout] [QUOTE=lizardling] **Mangetout** , why Norfolk – is this a hillbilly joke I’m being whooshed by? (What is the UK equivalent of hillbillies?) [/QUOTE] Pretty much. It’s where all the world’s turnips are grown. I’m not sure if they could be called _hillbillies_ though - as Norfolk is somewhat bereft of hills. [/QUOTE] To The Addams Family tune: _Your father is your brother, your sister is your mother, you like to fuck each other, the Norwich family._😃 I do find it interesting that the reactions of ‘it can’t be true’ seem to be heavily provoked by the squeamishness such a story creates. Nobody has given a good reason to disbelieve it, just that they don’t want it to be real. (Note that ‘behind closed doors’ situations such as this can occur in British courts in a way that may be unfamiliar to those used to other systems.) ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/34 "2008-01-13T13:31:17Z")
[QUOTE=AudreyK] It’s quite a leap to go from (born on the same day) + (adopted) = we’re twins!, though. They probably just thought, “Cool, we have the same birthday and we’re both adopted. It must be destiny!” [/QUOTE] And we look a little like each other… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/35 "2008-01-13T14:44:19Z")
The only real reason to disbelieve it is that it appears at such a convenient time for Lord What’s His Name. Plus the claim that it can’t be verified by any public records. OTOH, what other time WOULD it crop up, all the details being secret? ---
**Author:** ![Tikster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@Tikster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tikster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/36 "2008-01-13T15:02:00Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] And we look a little like each other… [/QUOTE] I don’t think they were identical - they come from seperate eggs after all 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/37 "2008-01-13T15:13:09Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] The only real reason to disbelieve it is that it appears at such a convenient time for Lord What’s His Name. Plus the claim that it can’t be verified by any public records. [/QUOTE] Nothing in the story states when it occurred. And once again, this was dealt with in a family court, and there is nothing unusual about such proceedings being kept private. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/38 "2008-01-13T15:41:39Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Nothing in the story states when it occurred. And once again, this was dealt with in a family court, and there is nothing unusual about such proceedings being kept private. [/QUOTE] Apologies – I misspoke. Instead of saying, “The only real reason to disbelieve it…” I should have said, “What makes it seem suspicious…”. I have no real reason to disbelieve it, though I have a very high degree of skepticism toward anecdotal stories told by politicians to further their agendas. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180/39 "2008-01-15T02:27:22Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] I do find it interesting that the reactions of ‘it can’t be true’ seem to be heavily provoked by the squeamishness such a story creates. Nobody has given a good reason to disbelieve it, just that they don’t want it to be real. [/QUOTE] The reasons to disbelieve it are: 1. political mileage is being gained from it (as Boyo Jim noted) and 2. there is not one credible or ascertainable piece of information that accompanies the story. I understand you think people may disbelieve because it makes them squeamish, but “It’s true because I said so unless you can disprove it” has never been a weighty argument to bring to the table. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twins-separated-at-birth-unknowingly-marry-each-other/433180.md?page=1)