# Twisted Florida Ruling Says Pregnant Teen Isn’t ‘Mature’ Enough for Abortion **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773 "2022-08-16T18:22:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/81 "2022-10-13T19:58:19Z")
Hopefully, she’s mature enough to get all of that done within the allotted time. I know that, when I was a teenager, I was mature enough hire lawyers, file legal appeals, refile, and so on and so forth, with like a day or two to spare before Florida says, nope. And, if any of those steps are delayed by a couple of days (weekend, holiday, judge sick day), sorry! You’re having a kid! All to avoid a simple medical procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/82 "2022-10-13T19:59:26Z")
She “inexplicably” declined the lawyer which is available free of charge. Judge’s words, not mine. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/83 "2022-10-13T20:13:37Z")
I would have thought her guardian, the one who will be responsible to getting her to wellness appointments, etc., would have made sure she had a lawyer. Not much of a guardian, I guess. Weird that she’s mature enough to decline legal help and be pregnant (with all the healthcare and risks that go with that) but not mature enough to decide to get a simple medical procedure. I don’t know what that judge was thinking. Oh, he was probably thinking with his bible. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/84 "2022-10-13T20:15:41Z")
Has she tried telling the judge that Herschel Walker is the father? That seems to work. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/85 "2022-10-13T20:20:11Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I would have thought her guardian, the one who will be responsible to getting her to wellness appointments, etc., would have made sure she had a lawyer. Not much of a guardian, I guess. Yeah, that doesn’t really make sense if she’s going to the courts to bypass her guardian. The same statute is invoked if your guardian rapes you and you want the abortion. The guardian would be adversarial which is why they aren’t in the court at all, since this is a nonadversarial proceeding. Hence why Florida provides the lawyer for free. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/86 "2022-10-13T20:30:25Z")
I’m getting conflicting info here – one person called the guardian is fine with her getting an abortion. And yet, she’s in court to bypass her guardian. So, either there are two guardians who conflict with each other or only one and that one doesn’t want her to get an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/87 "2022-10-13T20:31:53Z")
I direct you again to [post #73](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/73), which quotes the dissenting judge’s opinion. > [@Max\_S](#): > > The minor wrote that her guardian “was fine” with the minor’s decision. This statement was written in the section of the form petition related to whether it was in the “best interest of the minor” for a parent/guardian to not be notified, which was out of place on the form but not a basis to disregard the apparent possibility of guardian consent. If the minor’s guardian consents to the minor’s termination of her pregnancy, all that is required is a written waiver from the guardian. § 390.01114(4)(b)2., Fla. Stat. Such a written waiver would be self-executing, meaning that the minor need not invoke the judicial bypass procedure at all. Or read it yourself here, page 5: [DocumentCloud](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22136575-in-re-jane-doe-22-b) It’s entirely possible that after she read the appeals court ruling, she just went to her guardian and got a written waiver and called it a day. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/88 "2022-10-13T20:35:36Z")
If the judge accepted her claim that the guardian was fine with the abortion, shouldn’t the just have just ruled in her favor? Why send her through this runaround? Or, was the teen confused as to who her legal guardian was? ETA: I just read that the judge was voted out after that decision. \Haha!\<\Nelson\> ETA2: I will be away for a few hours, so maybe someone else can pick this up, if there’s anything left to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/89 "2022-10-13T20:44:38Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > If the judge accepted her claim that the guardian was fine with the abortion, shouldn’t the just have just ruled in her favor? No, per statute she needs written consent from the guardian or she needs to prove her maturity before the court. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Why send her through this runaround? The girl is the one who filed the petition, possibly due to a misunderstanding from her case worker / advocate or possibly just due to her own misunderstanding. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Or, was the teen confused as to who her legal guardian was? Doubtful, but possible. > [@RitterSport](#): > > I just read that the judge was voted out after that decision. To my knowledge this is false. Judge Makar’s term ends in 2027, and he wrote the partial concurrance/dissent that I cited. The other two appeals court judges, Judges Nordby and Jay, were elected to serve until 2027 and 2025, respectively. [According to the Florida Bar](https://www.floridabar.org/the-florida-bar-news/voters-to-decide-51-circuit-and-county-court-races-this-year-228-seats-on-the-bench-were-uncontested-after-qualifying/) Judge Frydrychowicz was reelected with no competition earlier this year. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/90 "2022-10-13T20:57:05Z")
Replying by email - it was a Guardian article that said it. I should have provided a link - maybe someone can find it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/91 "2022-10-13T21:28:28Z")
My now deceased father and big Rush fan thought it insane that a high school girl could get pregnant. “It’s just going to encourage SEX” Ummmm… Dad… A high school wanted to be able to give out free condoms. OK, says I. Oh boy. That was not a good evening. But of course he was a BIG Rush fan. This BS started a long, long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/92 "2022-10-13T22:14:18Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > To my knowledge this is false. Here’s a cite from The Hill: [https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3615274-judge-who-denied-florida-teen-an-abortion-citing-grades-loses-reelection/](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3615274-judge-who-denied-florida-teen-an-abortion-citing-grades-loses-reelection/) Maybe it’s another Florida teen denied an abortion? Could definitely be. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/93 "2022-10-13T23:42:20Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > My now deceased father and big Rush fan thought it insane that a high school girl could get pregnant It took me a minute. I read your post and thought “What does this have to do with a Canadian power trio?”. Forgot all about Mr. Limbaugh. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/94 "2022-10-14T00:56:29Z")
Oh, gawd, me, too! LOL. I’m very happy that Rush no longer comes readily to my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/95 "2022-10-14T01:22:58Z")
Me three. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/96 "2022-10-14T11:02:34Z")
Four. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/97 "2022-10-14T17:09:40Z")
Different kid. _She_ was denied the waiver of parental consent because of a 2.0 GPA. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/98 "2022-10-14T17:11:39Z")
Huh, when I got bad grades, I wasn’t allowed to watch TV, my parents didn’t make me give birth. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/99 "2022-10-14T17:17:59Z")
Surely you see how silly this is, right? Having an abortion requires much less maturity and continued responsibility than being pregnant, having a child, and deciding whether to keep or give up the child. ETA: Sorry for mixing up the two cases. Who would have thought two different teens would be denied the option of making their own decisions? 🤷‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773/100 "2022-10-14T17:25:42Z")
Reading that decision… the father “does not believe in abortion except in cases of rape”. So that had nothing to do with grades. Dad also won’t let her drive - refuses to pay for insurance or to let her pay for insurance. So I don’t see how you can hold her lack of driving experience as a sign of immaturity. It says she worked two jobs. In fact it appears that her then current grades were Bs though her GPA was 2.0, which isn’t a contradiction. That just means she was doing better in school. Oh, I see the decision was overturned on appeal. Good. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisted-florida-ruling-says-pregnant-teen-isn-t-mature-enough-for-abortion/969773.md?page=6)