# Twisting every discussion into US debate=exposng yourself as really fuckng ignorant about the world **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2010, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612 "2010-05-07T08:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/41 "2010-05-07T20:40:45Z")
> [@](#): > > So you want to not allow people to relate with something with which they are more familiar. Yes, god forbid the people who don’t have a fucking clue what’s going on in Greece just shut up and let the people who do know what they’re talking about, you know, talk. It’s not like there aren’t 17 threads already about Tea Partiers and US banks. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/42 "2010-05-07T20:44:02Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > Except for Florida of course. And Arizona… and Kansas… and the NY Yankees…😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/43 "2010-05-07T20:45:15Z")
I think post #30 here does an excellent job of demonstrating the problem the OP is talking about; it’s not relating global things to the US that’s a problem (although it does get boring), but the haring off down that path that almost inevitably happens. It’s like that old joke about attention whores - “But enough about me; what do YOU think about me?” “We’ve talked about Greece and their problems for long enough now; let’s get back to partisan bickering.” ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/44 "2010-05-07T20:55:15Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I have seen the collosseum. Actually, I got arrested outside it at four in the morning with 8 others, wearing only a toga, but I digress. > > If I was chatting with friends, they arent really interested in me slabbering about the big ruins in the middle of Rome. They have seen Gladiator, they dont care how well I describe it. And why would they, it wasnt them who got to see it. > > A McDonalds though. They have all seen a McDonalds. And now you can tell them about one with asswiping waiters??? Blow me but thats a momentary diversion from the gloom of Irish life, thats the story I am telling. > > Maybe its an Irish thing. A guy pontificating about the beauty of the Mona Lisa or Uluru, well thats a guy heading for a verbal smackdown. Over here our stories have to be odd, funny or interesting. Saying you seen something and liked just isnt enough. Yeah. I guess you are right about that. But I would love to visit Rome. And when I do, folks are going to have to suffer me expressing my excitement at seeing the collosseum. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/45 "2010-05-07T20:59:59Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Yeah. I guess you are right about that. But I would love to visit Rome. And when I do, folks are going to have to suffer me expressing my excitement at seeing the collosseum. Get drunk and wear a toga, it enhances the experience, I promise. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/46 "2010-05-07T21:04:00Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I hate to break this to the OP, who possibly has never left this country and spent a significant time in another country talking to people … but folks in other countries have just as much, if not more, ignorance of what happens in the US. Mayhaps although by force of US omnipresence, awareness (however deformed Never mind my experience of Americans eval of “ignorance of what happens in the US” oft equates to “do not agree with my political and rather provincial read of the US.” I’ve followed your comments enough to say that this applies not to you, but… Nevertheless, I think the OP (his post above so suggests) was focused on the annoying - "Well I know fuck all about the non US topic - oh and people outside of the US are not living in caves? Bloody hell!! - so I will inject a not really relevant US hijack such as “Bush caused this, or Clinton or” whatever politico the person hates (or likes really very much). > [@](#): > > I’ve been told things about US government operations by educated French people that any intelligent 5th-grader or highly trained US gibbon could have refuted. Perhaps, but they at least have a rather higher operational knowledge of US affairs than the average American - never mind I find that Americans confuse their view of their affairs as The View. Natural to be sure, but outside of the US we have to confront rather more frequently different views. [quote] And when I ask them what they know about Kansas - a piece of land about the size of England and Wale combined - the average Briton is hard-pressed to know anything other than “Wizard of Oz!” [/quaote] Giving my US experience I find this quite the bankrupt complaint as I’d wager that “90%” of the US population knows (i) fuck all about Kansas, (ii) knows anything more about it than Wizard of Oz. that’s like benchmarking US knowledge of UK off of knowledge of … Strathclyde. > [@](#): > > It’s the same situation - they don’t know jack shit about this country, but by God they want to have their say. The Rest of the World has rather less of a habit of interfering in others affairs, so the whole “want to have their say” thing is pretty stupid as a comment. As the US - and I say this as a conservative who is generally (but not boot-lickingly) pro US - has rather more capacity and evident inclination to fuck around with others, it’s quite reasonable that outsiders have views. But again, it seems to me that the OP was spot on re the rather tedious tendency for posters here to transform every such discussion into “This is All US Fault” or similar. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/47 "2010-05-07T21:56:27Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > But again, it seems to me that the OP was spot on re the rather tedious tendency for posters here to transform every such discussion into “This is All US Fault” or similar. You may be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/48 "2010-05-07T23:53:34Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > But surely it depends on what measure you draw relevance? I mean, you could equally point out that such things effect humanity as a whole, and are thus relevant. Or that financial markets are linked, and thus relevant. Right, but \*\*Koxinga \*\*is saying that as soon as you say “There is a parallel situation in the US” that you’ve now displayed some ignorance. So in his world, in order to not display ignorance, you have to avoid mentioning that the financial markets are linked, or that Obama is doing X and Y, or our debt is out of control, or how the Tea Party is set to combat that. In other words, you’re restricted to saying “How bout that Greece?” “Yeah, how bout that.” ::silence:: Because God forbid you relate it back to your life in your country, so that the conversation is, you know, interesting. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/49 "2010-05-08T00:16:34Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Americans? Not just “Americans”, but two specific Americans who love to go off on political rants upon the slightest provocation. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/50 "2010-05-08T01:46:03Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Right, but \*\*Koxinga \*\*is saying that as soon as you say “There is a parallel situation in the US” that you’ve now displayed some ignorance. So in his world, in order to not display ignorance, you have to avoid mentioning that the financial markets are linked, or that Obama is doing X and Y, or our debt is out of control, or how the Tea Party is set to combat that. To the contrary.\*\* Koxinga\*\* so far as I can tell is complaining about occasions when the subject of the debate is shifted from whichever country in question over to the U.S., or when a persons’ contribution to such a debate is entirely in U.S. terms. In order to avoid ignorance “in his world”, you could certainly mention that financial markets are linked, or that Obama is doing X and Y, etc., so long as you exhibit some level of knowledge of the actual subject outside of U.S. issues. Which seems reasonable to me - if you can’t say anything about an issue except how it relates to the U.S., then it strikes me as a good sign of ignorance about non-U.S. issues. The point is not making reference to the U.S., the point is the inability to say or understand an issue except in reference to the U.S.. To, as the title suggests “twist every discussion into US debate”. > [@](#): > > Because God forbid you relate it back to your life in your country, so that the conversation is, you know, interesting. If you can make a point on a subject by reference to another subject, hey, excellent. If you can only talk about a subject by reference to another subject - less excellent. And a good suggestion of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/51 "2010-05-08T01:55:04Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > Side note: It is only an American, who, after a trip around Europe, would enthuse about her trip to Rome by talking about the cool McDonald’s with waiters that was there There are no waiters in McDonaalds in Rome. Or, if there are, they’re pretty good at hiding from me every time I go there. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/52 "2010-05-08T05:31:33Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Let’s see: the vice-president was a senator from DE. DE it’s a paradise for financial companies due to their tax free and laisser-faire attitude if these companies do not do business withing DE, which means that a disproportionate number of companies are register there (I know firsthand). And well, comedians always ask themselves if such place exist. So I know three things. > > What do you know about the lackluster parts of my country (you in general)? Of course we are small and fairly insignificant, but I am sure more people outside the US know more about the US than the other way around. Well, there is a town name Jarabacoa in the middle of the island, near the convergence of two rivers. There is a very nice waterfall near it, which is nice to look at and a great deal of fun to swim in. But you have to be careful, if you are in the water near the place it exits the pool, you can get sucked right out and thrown into some rocks. It is about a 3 hour drive from Santo Domingo, then it is a couple more from there to Puerto Plata on the north coast. There used to be a nice cable car ride to the top of a mountain there, I hope it is still in business. It makes up the eastern 2/3 of the island of Hispaniola, Haiti taking up the rest. A lot of the nastier jobs are done by Haitians, for the same reason illegals do them in the USA. Although I believe the Haitians are legal workers, they just get paid less. I am afraid that is all I know off the top of my head. I wouldn’t mind getting back to the island sometime, but there are hundreds of other places I feel the same way about, and thousands more I have not been to yet that I want to reach. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/53 "2010-05-08T08:09:10Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I have seen the collosseum. Actually, I got arrested outside it at four in the morning with 8 others, wearing only a toga, but I digress. > > . Nitpick- Colosseum. Are you going to tell us the rest of the story? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/54 "2010-05-08T09:32:06Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I hate to break this to the OP, who possibly has never left this country and spent a significant time in another country talking to people (and no, a 1-week vacation or a Carnival Cruise doesn’t count), but folks in other countries have just as much, if not more, ignorance of what happens in the US. I’ve been told things about US government operations by educated French people that any intelligent 5th-grader or highly trained US gibbon could have refuted. I’ve been told things about the US economy by intelligent Spanish people which are entirely false. Same with Poland, same with Italy, same with South American countries, etc. And I’ve spent…good grief, I don’t know how long, trying to refute legends and made-up “facts” about the US in the United Kingdom. > > I remember during the Bush/Gore post-election drama being told authoritatively by French people while I was in France that “the United States has no President! They will have to re-write their Constitution or have a revolution now!” I was actually asked in seriousness if my passport would still be “good” to return home. I was also told that Florida was going to “secede” from the United States, an act made easier by the fact it was an island… 😕 In Poland, I was told that “more than 90% of the population of the United States lives in New York or California.” And when I ask them what they know about Kansas - a piece of land about the size of England and Wale combined - the average Briton is hard-pressed to know anything other than “Wizard of Oz!” (as a sidebar, it’s still disheartening when a tornado flattens a trailer park in Georgia and Fierra’s mother sees it on the BBC and calls her to know if she’s “alright.” “Yes mother,” she says sarcastically, “it was only 2,000 kilometers away from us, so things were pretty dicey!”) > > It’s the same situation - they don’t know jack shit about this country, but by God they want to have their say. All of this is true (well, except for the trick question : there \*is \*nothing to know about Kansas !), but that’s not what the OP is about. Ignorance is fine. Well, not really, but it’s expected. You’ll find it wherever. Your stories would have been what the OP’s bitching about only if the French had said “You’re going to have a revolution ! Thankfully, Chirac is on the case, don’t you worry we’ll send boatloads of cannon, just like in the old days when WE SAVED YOUR ASS FROM THE BRITS\*”, the Florida secession piece had sparked a heated debate on what to do with Corsican nationalists, and the Polish followed his/her revelation that 90% of the population lived in California with how it was the same in sunny Gdansk and it’s all the Soviets’ fault. It’s not the ignorance that’s irritating, it’s the ethnocentrism. - seriously, give the WW2 thing a fucking rest, will you please ? ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/55 "2010-05-08T11:42:26Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > There are no waiters in McDonaalds in Rome. Or, if there are, they’re pretty good at hiding from me every time I go there. It’s only one McDonalds - there is something special about it, but I’m not sure what. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/56 "2010-05-08T12:37:00Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Right, but \*\*Koxinga \*\*is saying that as soon as you say “There is a parallel situation in the US” that you’ve now displayed some ignorance. So in his world, in order to not display ignorance, you have to avoid mentioning that the financial markets are linked, or that Obama is doing X and Y, or our debt is out of control, or how the Tea Party is set to combat that. > > In other words, you’re restricted to saying > “How bout that Greece?” > “Yeah, how bout that.” > ::silence:: > > Because God forbid you relate it back to your life in your country, so that the conversation is, you know, interesting. To be fair, there’s no reason the conversation couldn’t go: “So, how about Greece? Are they fucked or what?” “Yeah, it’s not looking too good for them at all. If they’re lucky, though, the EU might come through with some sort of bailout package, at least give them some wiggle room or something.” “That’s a possibility, but I’m hearing things aren’t too good in Spain right now either… And if Greece goes down, that’s not going to be good for anyone.” No mention of the US, or US politics, or anything like that at all. So I see exactly what the OP is talking about and where they’re coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/57 "2010-05-08T13:14:42Z")
The USA is the most powerful and influential country in the world. Obviously what happens here is going to be more important that what happens in Athens or Antwerp. Although I would agree there are a disproportionate number of Dopers who will hijack anything with “blame America first” or other irrelevancies. I blame Clinton and his blowjobs, myself. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/58 "2010-05-08T13:18:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The USA is the most powerful and influential country in the world. Obviously what happens here is going to be more important that what happens in Athens or Antwerp. That is one of the silliest statements I have seen on this board. Obviously Heidi Montag getting a boob job is more important than the UK elections. It happened in the most powerful and influential country in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/59 "2010-05-08T15:37:47Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > All of this is true (well, except for the trick question : there \*is \*nothing to know about Kansas !)… Let’s see. Off the top of my head, what do I know about Kansas… Capital: Topeka Also known as the Sunflower State, the Jayhawker State State Motto: Ad Astra Per Aspera 34th state to join the Union, January, 1861. In the 1850s, Kansas offered a “preview” of the coming civil war. The year 1856 was particularly bloody, with such events as anti-slavery advocate John Brown’s Pottawomie Creek massacres and the pro-slavery sack of Lawrence occurring in the Kansas Territory. These events were among the incidents that led to another nickname: Bleeding (sometimes Bloody) Kansas. In Washington at about the same time, Massachusetts senator Charles Sumner spoke against allowing slavery in Kansas in a speech called “The Crime Against Kansas,” and was severely beaten by South Carolina senator Preston Brooks for making the speech. Still, residents of the Kansas Territory were determined to pursue statehood. In all, they presented four constitutions to Congress: the Topeka Constitution, the Lecompton Constitution, the Leavenworth Constitution, and the Wyandotte Constitution. The first three were rejected by Congress for various reasons; the Wyandotte Constitution was approved by Congress however, and in January 1861, Kansas became the 34th state. Nothing to know about Kansas? Nonsense! 🙂 Actually, I will admit that for some strange reason, I’m fascinated by the story of how Kansas became a state. I’ve done a lot of research, and written academic papers on the topic. But this knowledge is not something I’d expect very many people to have immediately at hand. Still, while “nothing much happens in Kansas” may be a true enough statement today, it is also true that Kansas was a pretty exciting (and dangerous) place at one time. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612/60 "2010-05-08T16:57:01Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Kinda related: I was perturbed about was discussion about the nature of the Times Square bomb with complete disregard for the fact that three very, very similar devices were planted by Al Qaeda dickweasels in the UK in 2007. I was a bit surprised that the link wasn’t initially made by contributors to the thread - I would have hoped they’d have known about these events - but even after I mentioned this in two threads, the fact was largely overlooked. > > If we have a common enemy, it’s a pretty good idea to know what they are up to even when they’re not targeting the US. Everything’s gotta be all about the YOO KAY for you, doesn’t it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twisting-every-discussion-into-us-debate-exposng-yourself-as-really-fuckng-ignorant-about-the-world/538612.md?page=4)