# Twitch Streamer soliciting donations for a charity directly to their own PayPal, illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 15, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633 "2022-09-15T19:17:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/1 "2022-09-15T19:17:00Z")
There’s some minor Twitch drama going on and people are claiming it’s illegal and am curious if it actually is, also no specifics because the Steamer in question has been threatening to sue people who claim this is a scam. A Twitch streamer in Los Angeles a month ago announced one of their viewers had to go through chemotherapy, and was soliciting donations for their treatment. Now you would think they would do the obvious, set up a GoFundMe account. Nope, the Streamer said that the person wants to remain “Anonymous” and instead all charity donations would go through the Streamers own PayPal account, the same PayPal account they also use to solicit “donations” for themselves normally as part of the streams. Almost immediately viewers pipped in saying how illegal this was, to solicit funds for a charity while using their own personal bank account to receive the funds as well as there being very little to distinguish between charity donations and personal donations. Also the fact why didn’t they just set up a GoFundMe in the first place. People are now calling this a Scam online, and the Streamer is doubling down and now saying that they “talked to lawyers” who not only said it was legal to solicit charity donations like this, they will now sue people claiming it’s a scam for “libel and slander”. Does anyone know if the Streamer is actually commiting a crime? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/2 "2022-09-15T19:22:11Z")
If I ask for money, am I a “Charity?” If not, I don’t see how this is illegal. Of course, it’s still a scam, but that’s a different story. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/3 "2022-09-15T19:42:02Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > A Twitch streamer in Los Angeles a month ago announced one of their viewers had to go through chemotherapy, and was soliciting donations for their treatment. Now you would think they would do the obvious, set up a GoFundMe account. Nope, the Streamer said that the person wants to remain “Anonymous” and instead all charity donations would go through the Streamers own PayPal account, the same PayPal account they also use to solicit “donations” for themselves normally as part of the streams. > > Almost immediately viewers pipped in saying how illegal this was, to solicit funds for a charity while using their own personal bank account to receive the funds as well as there being very little to distinguish between charity donations and personal donations. Using one’s own bank account seems to be SOP for such donations. At least it was three years ago (bolding theirs): [https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/drk9hs/5\_years\_on\_twitch\_has\_no\_guidelines\_to\_combat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/drk9hs/5_years_on_twitch_has_no_guidelines_to_combat/) > Un-sponsored Partners and Affiliates who encourage Subscriptions, “Sub Trains”, and Cheering with the promise that all revenues will go to charity are not operating on a more legitimate level. Outside of [officially recognized charity events](https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2017/12/18/cheer-with-charity-to-support-a-good-cause-76f3e467048a/) and [Extensions](https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2019/05/13/charity-extensions-making-the-world-a-better-place-one-stream-at-a-time-6a594e90f8c3/), these revenues are fungible and paid out via **direct deposit into the Broadcaster’s personal bank account**. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/4 "2022-09-15T22:26:14Z")
If they claim it’s a licensed charity, and it is not, it is illegal. If they solicit money for someone’s (not a licensed charity) chemotherapy, and it is not used to that end, it would seem to be wire fraud - sort of like soliciting funds to build a wall and using it for personal expenses. (Or similar misdirected solicitations?) The trick would be to prove it - how much was raised and how much was spent on the purpose. Without a formal police investigation, this would be a murky situation to prove, especially when mixed with personal income flow. I guess there’s a component of taxable income involved too, but anyone involved in this sort of revenue flow who neglects to take care of the tax details is fairly stupid. I wonder if I give you a sum of money and say it is for Bob’s chemo, whether this is a gift, income to you, income for Bob…? I would guess the IRS is not stupid, someone who lives on soliciting “gifts” cannot claim their income is all gifts - but then, I have never looked into this… Streaming to get income would suggest to me “work” and “income”. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/5 "2022-09-16T21:08:19Z")
This would most certainly be illegal if it was a political candidate or cause that they were soliciting for. Campaign Finance laws in my state (and, as I recall, Federal campaigns) require that all funds raised be kept in a separate bank account. And they are pretty strict about enforcing this. And I have to agree, seeing how often I see news stories about some charity or non-profit organization turns out to have been embezzled by the founders, or to have been a complete fraud in the first place, I sure wouldn’t donate to such a sketchy setup. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/6 "2022-09-16T21:28:20Z")
It’s not illegal for them to collect the funds that way. I know others who have done it. It would be illegal if they don’t then actually follow through. It is, however, a red flag when they could have set it up in a more transparent way and chose not to. A GoFundMe would have made a lot more sense here. And even more red flags with their response, not understanding why people would be wary. And it’s definitely not libel to point out that something seems like a scam (which this does). ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/7 "2022-09-17T06:52:02Z")
Of course, if someone chose to sue for libel against the claim they were scamming, they’d have to provide documented details showing that they did not, that every donation intended for the charitable cause went there - basically destroying the anonymity of their friend and their own income information. Plus, making a lawyer rich. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/8 "2022-09-17T07:00:27Z")
There’s not a lot of difference between asking for money via PayPal vs GoFundMe. Either way, the donations end up in a nominated bank account. GoFundMe provides a web front end for charity projects so people can see the donations, the fund balance, and comment, etc; with PayPal, the donations are only visible to the account owner, but in either case ‘via their own bank account’ is a pretty normal way of getting the money out into usable form. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/9 "2022-09-17T07:04:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It is, however, a red flag when they could have set it up in a more transparent way and chose not to. A GoFundMe would have made a lot more sense here. I agree on the transparency. Fees may have been a factor - PayPal transfers between individuals are typically free of fees. GoFundMe skims off about 3% of every donation (I think this might be 2% for registered charities). ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/10 "2022-09-17T07:05:25Z")
The difference everyone points out is that all funds for GoFundMe are specifically for the GoFundMe, while a PayPal address is a lot harder to determine which donations were for who. I know PayPal allows a “Note” function so you can tell if someone is sending money for a specific purpose but when a Streamer is getting hundreds of donations a day people are concerned the streamer may just pocket a bunch of random donations “accidentally”. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/11 "2022-09-17T07:08:13Z")
For clarification the Streamer claims their getting the donations via PayPal, venmoing that money to a friend of the person, and that friend then gets the money deposited in their own bank account which allows them to write a direct check for the Chemo patient. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/12 "2022-09-17T16:20:41Z")
I see no way how the method of collecting the money would make it illegal. Is there a difference between passing a hat and sending out a mailer asking for donations? Or any other manner of collection. There is no misrepresentation as a licensed charity. What is done with the money after would determine legality. If they are pretending it is for charity and pocketing the money then it could be theft by deception. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/13 "2022-09-17T18:15:04Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What is done with the money after would determine legality. If they are pretending it is for charity and pocketing the money then it could be theft by deception. This is the key point. (a) if it is done in the same way as the person makes their own money, it would be hard later to separate the two - accidentally or on purpose - unless _every_ donation comes with some sort of note. (b) As I understand, using electronic communication as part of a process where the money is not used as intended is wire fraud, which I think is a federal crime; but (a) applies, if they just skin some of it how would anyone tell? (c) As I understand, the police would need something more than a stranger saying “this looks suspicious” to begin investigating - some actual evidence of some money not going where intended. Not building a promised wall, or not having a friend needing chemo, would be examples. Or someone suddenly more rich than normal? ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/14 "2022-09-17T18:57:05Z")
To make things even more complicated the streamer in order to “prove” they were donating money to the chemo patient showed a receipt of an iPad Mini they bought for them using the donated funds. Maybe it’s just me but if I was so desperate for life saving medicine I had to tell a big streamer to collect funds on my behalf, would I really ask for the initial donation to be a $600 tablet? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/15 "2022-09-17T19:03:01Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > For clarification the Streamer claims their getting the donations via PayPal, venmoing that money to a friend of the person, and that friend then gets the money deposited in their own bank account which allows them to write a direct check for the Chemo patient. One person’s “clarification” is another person’s “obfuscation.” This whole thing could be entirely on the up and up, but having donations go through _two_ other people, and three payment systems (PayPal, Venmo, then a check), before reaching the person in need, absolutely should send up some red flags – it sure comes across like it’s unnecessarily convoluted, and ripe for abuse. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/16 "2022-09-17T19:06:17Z")
While it sounds super sketch (and IANAL) it doesn’t sound illegal. If the money actually ends up with the viewer going through chemo. If he just pockets it (which seems fairly likely) it would be pretty straightforward fraud. It would also make his taxes pretty complicated. As there is no non-profit involved he just (in theory) took the money via PayPal then sent it to the viewer. I know I wouldn’t donate that way (and by choosing to do it that way even if it is actually legit he ensured fewer people donated than would otherwise) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/17 "2022-09-17T20:10:46Z")
In all honesty, acting as a middleman for a charitable collection of funds for someone else is fraught with all kinds of difficulty - I know this because I tried to do it. I set up a GoFundMe for my Nigerian friend Babatunde (I feel like I have to say: not a scammer, and I am certain of that - he is a teacher and was made redundant and was in dire need) - then it turned out the funds could not be withdrawn to a Nigerian bank account. He set up a non domiciliary account, and for other reasons, the withdrawals could not be pointed to that either. We ended up with the withdrawals coming into my account and me forwarding them on via various money transfer services and later, bitcoin. Gofundme took a commission, the money transfer services took a fee etc. Often it was difficult to reconcile the incoming donations to the stream of withdrawal payments because of assorted payment clearance delays, and people cancelling their donation or their payment being refused by their cardholder etc. It was a massive headache to organise and I started to fear that the pattern of transactions would be picked up for fraud investigation or something. Short version: if the recipient of the charity is an adult with a suitable bank account, the GoFundMe payouts should be directed straight to them, and this is vastly superior to any middleman solution - especially PayPal, which as you say, does not provide transparency or isolation of funds. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/18 "2022-09-18T00:14:57Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Maybe it’s just me but if I was so desperate for life saving medicine I had to tell a big streamer to collect funds on my behalf, would I really ask for the initial donation to be a $600 tablet? If you’re going to have to sit in a chair getting chemo for hours at a time, a good tablet is definitely a quality of life enhancer. Assuming the tablet actually ends up with the person getting the chemo, I don’t think there’s a problem. It might be reasonable to argue a $60 Amazon Fire tablet would have been more frugal, but also certainly less capable. Of course, just like with the rest of the money, if the tablet never gets to the chemo patient, then that’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/twitch-streamer-soliciting-donations-for-a-charity-directly-to-their-own-paypal-illegal/971633/19 "2022-09-18T15:15:49Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > While it sounds super sketch (and IANAL) it doesn’t sound illegal. If the money actually ends up with the viewer going through chemo. If he just pockets it (which seems fairly likely) it would be pretty straightforward fraud. That’s the bottom line of this whole discussion - if it actually went to the person he was collecting on behalf of, for the purpose (generally) which the solicitation was made, then no problem.