# Two Baseball Pitching Question **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 17, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128 "2016-09-17T02:20:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/1 "2016-09-17T02:20:41Z")
I’m watching one of my favorite movies “Brewster’s Millions” (the Pryer version). At the start of the movie, Monty throws two pitches. Both are foul balls. The tone of the scene seems to be suggesting that this is a bad result and so by extension Monty isn’t a great pitcher. However, I would think that if a pitcher could throw a ball on the edge of hitability such that it is likely to be a foul and hence a strike this would be a good thing. So what’s the Straight Dope, would a pitcher that can consistently throw foul balls be considered a good or bad pitcher? He then throws a rather high arcing ball (by the time it reaches the plate it is about head height to the batter). The opponent swings and misses. Strike out! Yay! But I’m wondering is there even the remotest chance of such a pitch working even in the minors? Could your really catch a player so off guard that they swing at a clearly terrible pitch? Does such a pitch even count? I cannot find a short clip of the scene so hopefully you’ve seen the movie. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/2 "2016-09-17T02:27:57Z")
Second question is called an [Eephus.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eephus_pitch) It works because it’s so slow and the path is unfamiliar that players have trouble tracking it’s path and timing their swing. I haven’t seen the movie so I don’t know the quality of the fouls but two line drive fouls pulled are worse than two weak fouls to the opposite field. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/3 "2016-09-17T02:51:11Z")
Re: Eephus pitch. [Sometimes it works](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikLlRT2j7EQ). [Oftentimes, it doesn’t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW0V6OsxDBo). ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/4 "2016-09-17T02:57:32Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Re: Eephus pitch. > > [Sometimes it works](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikLlRT2j7EQ). > > [Oftentimes, it doesn’t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW0V6OsxDBo). Thanks for the replies. I’m shocked such a thing exists and stunned that it has actually worked in the majors! I figured it was pure nonsense. Honestly, I almost felt silly even asking because I thought there is no way there is such a thing. Ignorance fought. As for the foul balls, in the movie, the both go out of the park. The first is perhaps 6 metres to the the left of the foul ball line. The second is maybe a few feet. So I think I understand what you mean running coach. That given how close those are to home runs, it doesn’t mean he’s throwing a barely hittable ball but rather a ball that is very nearly a home run. And hence the tone of the scene. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/5 "2016-09-17T05:37:28Z")
[Here’s one where LaRoche strikes out Willie Wilson](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz-VlAKHoO4), pitching three eephuses in one at-bat (the first was a ball, though.) Willie manages to reach first, though, as the catcher made a hash of catching the last one. [ETA: And here’s the rest of the LaRoche-Thomas at-bat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdyT0LHNSfg) that I linked to earlier. Looks like there were three eephuses thrown in that at-bat as well. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/6 "2016-09-17T06:12:51Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Re: Eephus pitch. > > [Sometimes it works](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikLlRT2j7EQ). > > [Oftentimes, it doesn’t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW0V6OsxDBo). Sometimes it goes hilariously wrong. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5jAKobQQLnI/maxresdefault.jpg "Randy Johnson Pitch Behind Larry Walker's Head") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jAKobQQLnI) Both clips are the same at-bat, Randy Johnson vs Larry Walker at the 1997 All-Star Game. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/7 "2016-09-17T13:40:52Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > … > [Sometimes it works](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikLlRT2j7EQ). > … That cracked me up! I thought I was baseball literate, but I don’t recall seeing such a pitch outside of a softball game. I can see that really pissing off a batter. (I’m not saying he would be justified.) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/8 "2016-09-17T13:46:39Z")
6 minutes of [eephus pitches.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwP2U7lS28o) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/9 "2016-09-17T13:54:53Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > [Here’s one where LaRoche strikes out Willie Wilson](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz-VlAKHoO4), pitching three eephuses in one at-bat (the first was a ball, though.) Willie manages to reach first, though, as the catcher made a hash of catching the last one. > > [ETA: And here’s the rest of the LaRoche-Thomas at-bat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdyT0LHNSfg) that I linked to earlier. Looks like there were three eephuses thrown in that at-bat as well. That last one brought a smile to my face. It’s like striking out in slow pitch softball! ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/10 "2016-09-17T16:26:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Re: Eephus pitch. > > [Oftentimes, it doesn’t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW0V6OsxDBo). That A-Rod pitch wasn’t much of an eephus, seeing as how it didn’t even go above his head. From the clip, it’s hard to tell if the pitcher was trying to throw an eephus and threw it way too low, or just screwed up and hung a change-up right down the middle. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/11 "2016-09-17T17:51:18Z")
The eephus is an extreme example of a change-up, although change-ups usually follow fastballs I think. It has the added advantage of truly embarrassing the batter. It really takes advantage of batters who sort of spring load themselves for a pitch, I know I’d probably end up swinging at garbage like that. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/12 "2016-09-17T19:54:38Z")
Isn’t this the same as the blooper pitch, for which Rip Sewell was famous? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/13 "2016-09-17T20:45:08Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Isn’t this the same as the blooper pitch, for which Rip Sewell was famous? [From Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_Sewell) > [@](#): > > In December 1941, Sewell was injured in a hunting accident, as he was shot with two loads of buckshot. The injury permanently damaged the big toe that Sewell pitched off, and he was required to re-engineer his pitching motion and delivery. The re-engineered pitching motion is what gave rise to Sewell’s famous “blooper pitch.” > > Sewell threw the blooper pitch by holding onto the seam and flipping it off three fingers to get backspin. Sewell’s blooper reached an arc of 25 feet. The first time Sewell threw the blooper in a game was in an exhibition match against the Detroit Tigers. Sewell described the reaction of the Detroit batter, Dick Wakefield: “He started to swing, he stopped, he started again, he stopped, and then he swung and missed it by a mile. I thought everybody was going to fall off the bench, they were laughing so hard.” (Donald Honig, “Baseball When the Grass Was Real” (1975), p. 254) > > Pittsburgh outfielder Maurice Van Robays named Sewell’s blooper pitch the “Eephus pitch”, saying, “Eephus ain’t nothin’ and that’s what that ball is.” [Video of only home run](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7V6a6VfPrM) hit off Sewell’s eephus. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/14 "2016-09-18T02:47:23Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > That A-Rod pitch wasn’t much of an eephus, seeing as how it didn’t even go above his head. From the clip, it’s hard to tell if the pitcher was trying to throw an eephus and threw it way too low, or just screwed up and hung a change-up right down the middle. Eh, it’s what I’d call an eephus. However, for the most extreme example I’ve ever seen, see [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWdO5mYF8T0). Looked like a strike to me, but, well, where did it cross the plate? Ball probably is the right call. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/15 "2016-09-19T18:05:49Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > That A-Rod pitch wasn’t much of an eephus, seeing as how it didn’t even go above his head. From the clip, it’s hard to tell if the pitcher was trying to throw an eephus and threw it way too low, or just screwed up and hung a change-up right down the middle. Looks like to me just a hanging curve ball. The blooper pitch (or, as I guess it is called now, “the eephus pitch”) is thrown way up in the air and drops at a steep angle. Ted Williams knew it was coming and could judge the drop. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/16 "2016-09-20T02:40:01Z")
Here is the greatest eephus pitch. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOt2iw-7n6A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOt2iw-7n6A) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/17 "2016-09-24T19:53:33Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > Here is the greatest eephus pitch. > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOt2iw-7n6A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOt2iw-7n6A) [I disagree](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSH1KH4Bcj4) ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/18 "2016-09-24T20:00:00Z")
I wonder if that would be a balk? The actual behind the back submarine pitch seems OK but the overhead fake throw may constitute a balk as it is a motion to delude the batter. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/19 "2016-09-24T20:11:29Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > [I disagree](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSH1KH4Bcj4) > [@barbitu8](#): > > I wonder if that would be a balk? The actual behind the back submarine pitch seems OK but the overhead fake throw may constitute a balk as it is a motion to delude the batter. [Tommy Byrne and the “Kimono ball”.](http://baseballpastandpresent.com/2010/12/08/tommy-home-plate-is-over-here/) > [@](#): > > Before his 2007 death at age 87, Byrne was induced into several Halls of Fame: North Carolina Sports, Baltimore City College, Wake Forest University Sports and the Maryland Sports. Byrne was also presented the Wake Forest Birthplace Society Distinguished Service Award and in September 2007, was held on the grounds of the Wake Forest College Birthplace Museum. > > More than anything else, I admire Byrne for inventing the “Kimono” pitch. > > Never heard of it? Byrne, defying all the laws of human physiology threw the “Kimono” from behind his back. To the frustration of batters and umpires, Byrne toyed with the “Kimono” during spring training in 1954. When camp broke and the teams went north, Commissioner Ford Frick outlawed it. ---
**Author:** ![Fleetwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fleetwood/32/271_2.png) [@Fleetwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fleetwood)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128/20 "2016-09-25T13:57:56Z")
Then there was the [Leephus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJRXlCeAXPY)pitch. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-baseball-pitching-question/766128.md?page=2)