# Two Ebola patients flying to Atlanta? Is this a good idea or reckless? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549 "2014-08-01T03:34:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/1 "2014-08-01T03:34:42Z")
Doctors without Borders says this outbreak is out of control. Two Americans that caught it in spite of their hazmat suits and other precautions will be in Atlanta within the next few days. The man is a doctor that caught Ebola and the woman was a volunteer that sprayed down and decontaminated the Doctors in their hazmat suits as they came out of the contaminated areas. If the suits and other procedures aren’t 100% effective what makes Emory University think they’ll keep this contained? Is this reckless behavior or is it a good idea? Would it be better to construct a Ebola treatment and research facility out in the desert hundreds of miles from any population centers? > **[Two Americans With Ebola to Be Flown Back to US 'Early Next Week'](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/americans-ebola-flown-back-us/story?id=24799794)** > > Two American patients stricken with Ebola will be flown from Africa to the U.S. in the next few days, ABC News has learned. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, there are plans to transfer a patient with Ebola virus infection to Emory University Hospital’s special facility containment unit within the next several days, hospital officials said today in a statement. Officials added that it’s unclear when the patient will arrive in Atlanta. > **[Ebola 'Totally Out of Control,' Doctors Without Borders Says](https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/ebola-totally-out-control-doctors-without-borders-says-n136856)** > > The Ebola outbreak in West Africa is the deadliest ever seen and the virus is raging "totally out of control," Doctors Without Borders said Friday. > [@](#): > > The Ebola outbreak in West Africa is the deadliest ever seen and the virus is raging ‘‘totally out of control,’’ an official with Doctors Without Borders said Friday. The virus, which causes a particularly nasty form of hemorrhagic fever, has killed 337 people out of 528 infected, the World Health Organization says — making it by far the biggest and deadliest outbreak of Ebola since it was first identified in 1976. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/2 "2014-08-01T03:44:07Z")
Would you want to die across the globe in a godforsaken foreign land of an exotic illness? Away from all family and friends. They are us citizens. They were there helping other sick humans. They deserve to come home. Not be abandoned because they are aick and it’s scary. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/3 "2014-08-01T03:45:21Z")
More on the doctor. He was the director of facility. Wasn’t he the person that setup all the quarantine and containment procedures? > **[2 Americans Catch Ebola In Liberia, As Nigeria Reports First Case](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2014/07/28/336043452/2-americans-catch-ebola-in-liberia-as-nigeria-reports-first-case)** > > The largest Ebola outbreak in history continues to grow. There have been more than 1,200 cases reported. And the virus has likely spread to Africa's most populous city, Lagos. I can’t help but wonder if these scientists and doctors are a little too over confidant in their ability to contain this. Researching a specimen in a bio lab is dangerous enough. Imagine patients equally dangerous that require routine nursing care. > [@](#): > > The first American to catch Ebola in the outbreak is Dr. Kent Brantly. The 33-year-old family doctor from Fort Worth, Texas, was infected while treating patients in Monrovia, the nonprofit Samaritan’s Purse Sunday on its website. > > Brantly is the medical director at an Ebola treatment center in Liberia’s capital. The clinic, where he is now being treated, is run by Samaritan’s Purse, a Christian aid group based in Boone, N.C. “He [Brantly] is in stable condition, talking with his doctors and working on his computer while receiving care,” the Charlotte Observer . ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/4 "2014-08-01T03:46:25Z")
Although I understand why they’re doing it, I’m going to go with reckless. I’m willing to trust that the isolation chamber they have will contain the disease, but I think the real danger lies in getting the patients from the airport to the chamber. Somewhere in my head I’m watching this in a movie theater, rolling my eyes at how this would _never_ happen in real life . . . Of course, if I was a family member of one of the patients, my views would be different. They’re US citizens, they’ve been incredibly selfless and brave, and what’s happening to them because of their generosity is unspeakably awful. It’s a tough, tough choice, one I’m happy I’m not actually making. So I’m putting down “Not Sure.” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/5 "2014-08-01T03:51:52Z")
I’m sympathetic to the poor victims, but as a microbiologist myself, it makes me very concerned that they’re transporting them here. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/6 "2014-08-01T03:57:09Z")
I’m happy to be corrected but my understanding is that this virus is like Hep c or Aids in that you actually need to have fluid transfer. You shouldn’t be able to get it by just breathing the same air, you need to ingest contaminated bodily fluid. What makes that tricky is the virus makes people bleed profusely and with blood spitting everywhere you only need to get a bit into an open wound or ingest it and you’re futterly ucked. Is that the case or does this stuff leak straight through hazmat suits into your bloodstream? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/7 "2014-08-01T04:05:47Z")
Doctors Without Borders seems to be on the front lines in this fight. I underlined an interesting statement. They use the word reduce instead of eliminate. > **[Ebola](https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/what-we-do/medical-issues/ebola)** > > The Ebola virus can kill anywhere from 25-90% of infected people. Learn how MSF has been responding to the ongoing outbreaks in the worst-hit countries. > [@](#): > > Ebola infections can only be diagnosed definitively in the laboratory by five different tests. > > Such tests are an extreme biohazard risk and should be conducted under maximum biological containment conditions. A number of human-to-human transmissions have occurred due to a lack of protective clothing. > > “Health workers are particularly susceptible to catching it so, along with treating patients, one of our main priorities is training health staff to reduce the risk of them catching the disease while caring for patients,” said Henry Gray, MSF’s emergency coordinator, during an outbreak of Ebola in Uganda in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/8 "2014-08-01T04:29:28Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Would you want to die across the globe in a godforsaken foreign land of an exotic illness? Away from all family and friends. They are us citizens. They were there helping other sick humans. They deserve to come home. Not be abandoned because they are aick and it’s scary. Sympathy is important, but it should not come at the cost of endangering thousands of lives. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/9 "2014-08-01T04:37:00Z")
It’s my understanding that they believe both patients caught the disease from an infected co-worker who was working in the decontamination area. In other words, they were infected while they were not in their suits in an area that was “safe”. That said, medical personnel are higher risk, and I have not been able to find full reasons for all of those deaths. Stress, poor conditions, accidental needle sticks, exposure out of the clinic setting are all speculated. The hope is that better conditions here would vastly cut down risk to staff and improve survival rates. I also believe that the CDC and medical staff here would like to improve their understanding of how to treat this type of virus. It’s a smaller world than it used to be. Better (the thinking may go) do this on our terms than find out the hard way that it’s already here. (And have you read Clancy? Or the news lately? It’s enough to make a person paranoid) My vote - good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/10 "2014-08-01T04:56:24Z")
Don’t know, but I’m stockpiling ammo! ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/11 "2014-08-01T05:46:15Z")
Sympathetic but I’d like to see them offshore in US waters. Surely the CDC/CIA has a secret decontam facility off the Carolinas? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/12 "2014-08-01T06:28:28Z")
I recall the military had a hospital ship off the coast of Iraq during the war. That seems ideal if they updated it with the newest bio containment gear. They’ve said used needles are a Ebola transmitter. Imagine all the addicts in Atlanta. A lot of them share needles. Ebola would rip through that group like wildfire. They in turn would expose anyone they came into contact with. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/13 "2014-08-01T06:55:44Z")
I live just a few miles from Emory (and from the CDC, natch), so if I’m wrong I guess I’ll be among the first to know it, but I voted “yes”. Ebola is some scary shit, but it’s not actually the Andromeda strain, or the zombie plague. From various news stories, they’re not just sticking these patients in coach on a Delta flight with maybe a surgical mask on them. They’re being flown back on specially-chartered flights, with presumably proper precautions, and at any rate, if something _does_ go wrong it will be the crews on those planes who will be at risk (and I’m sure they know what they’re getting into). The virus isn’t going to commandeer the planes and force the pilots to crash-land in the middle of a populated area, then come rushing out of the wreckage while laughing maniacally. It’s a really horrible virus, but it’s just a virus. As horrible as it is, it’s not nearly as contagious as the common cold. I would say the danger isn’t an event like this, where we know exactly what’s coming into this country, under the most carefully controlled and planned-for conditions; it’s some Passenger X who gets on his nonstop flight from wherever to Hartsfield-Jackson (because of course _everybody_ flies into Atlanta sooner or later, even if it’s just to change planes), even though, sure, he’s feeling a little under the weather, but it’s probably nothing, and he _really_ needs to make it to [insert name of big city here] in time for that wedding/conference/kid’s birthday… All the more reason–in addition to humanitarian concerns–to get these poor people to where they can be helped, and also to where this hideous disease can be properly studied. The treatment facilities these patients are being taken to are apparently state-of-the-art, world class, and specially designed to handle scary shit like this. And of course the CDC is just around the corner, and they’re certainly the people I want to be right on top of all this. (Now watch one of the planes crash a block from my house. Into a tanker truck full of hazardous chemicals, or possibly radioactive waste, so that the virus “mutates”. In a week I’ll be shambling around, bleeding from the eyes, and moaning for brains…delicious _braaains_.) ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/14 "2014-08-01T07:08:59Z")
The real danger is that bringing them here will probably inspire a bad ScyFy channel movie… ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Stilettos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Red\_Stilettos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Stilettos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/15 "2014-08-01T09:43:46Z")
They are being moved to a high-security, high-containment unit commissioned by the DoD and CDC for exactly this purpose. The rooms are under negative pressure. There is an entrance directly into the sealed unit, so no one has to go through the main hospital. There are lab facilities on site so no samples will go to the main hospital lab. It is very much a self-contained hospital within a hospital. It is also within walking distance of CDC. The patients will not fly into the Atlanta airport. They are being med-evaced directly to Emory. Is it a risk? Sure, especially for the transport crew and the clinical staff caring for these people. The risk to the general population, even the general population at Emory hospital is very, very minimal. Aceplace57, your concerns about reused needles are completely out of proportion to the risk. Even in the general hospital, needles are disposed of in tamper-resistant containers in the biohazard waste stream, meaning they are incinerated. In the containment unit, the waste won’t even enter the general hospital waste stream. When people talk about drug users reusing needles, they aren’t talking about needles from hospitals. They are talking about needles from other users. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/16 "2014-08-01T10:10:12Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Would you want to die across the globe in a godforsaken foreign land of an exotic illness? Away from all family and friends. They are us citizens. They were there helping other sick humans. They deserve to come home. Not be abandoned because they are aick and it’s scary. Your response brings to mind a certain quote: “When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.” ― Will Rogers Not causing more deaths is more important than dying surrounded by your friends and family. It sucks, but it’s incredibly foolish to make the same mistakes that got us into this mess. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/17 "2014-08-01T10:27:02Z")
I voted “not sure” but I lean towards bringing them here if it’s done properly (and it will be). **ddsun** makes a persuasive argument about bringing patients here on our terms in order to study them as opposed to waiting until we have to study someone off the street. This is a disease that needs to be studied and understood under controlled conditions so as to hopefully avoid having to study it under uncontrolled conditions. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/18 "2014-08-01T10:40:49Z")
My first thought was sure, of course bring them here. Smart people will be in charge of this, it’ll be fine. Then I started to laugh at myself and how trusting and naive I am. We fuck up all the time. But I guess I still don’t want these people abandoned. So I’ll just hope they all take extreme caution. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/19 "2014-08-01T11:10:41Z")
Ebola is a very nasty virus but its not as risky as news reports would have us believe. In third world populations it gets transmitted through unsanitary habits and lack of knowledge. Even so Ebola outbreaks are rare and usually die out. There are five variants and I think this one is Ebola Zaire, which is dangerous but not the worst. Marburg disease (a cousin) is worse. In a first world nation Ebola would have difficulty being transmitted - not impossible, but once detected would be contained. The other thing is Ebola has been known about and studied since 1976 so its not as if doctors and scientists are dealing with a brand new infection. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/20 "2014-08-01T11:35:17Z")
I am not worried. Our healthcare system deals with things far easier to spread. I think there is a small chance that some health care workers may be infected, but basically zero of it becoming a threat to the general population. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549.md?page=2)