# Two Ebola patients flying to Atlanta? Is this a good idea or reckless? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549 "2014-08-01T03:34:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/21 "2014-08-01T11:58:18Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Although I understand why they’re doing it, I’m going to go with reckless. I’m willing to trust that the isolation chamber they have will contain the disease, but I think the real danger lies in getting the patients from the airport to the chamber. While that’s a concern, and like **MEBuckner** , I’m within a few short miles of Emory & the CDC, the transport is not going to be that long. I do not expect these patients to land at Hartsfield-Jackson and have to wind their way through the city, but at [Peachtree-Dekalb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeKalb%E2%80%93Peachtree_Airport), which is within, maybe 2 miles of the facility, so a much shorter transfer. I’m not going to say that it doesn’t freak out my lizard brain a bit, but that is in strong conflict with the logical part of my brain, which knows that things will likely be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Stilettos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Red\_Stilettos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Stilettos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/22 "2014-08-01T12:13:15Z")
> [@Lsura](#): > > While that’s a concern, and like **MEBuckner** , I’m within a few short miles of Emory & the CDC, the transport is not going to be that long. I do not expect these patients to land at Hartsfield-Jackson and have to wind their way through the city, but at [Peachtree-Dekalb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeKalb%E2%80%93Peachtree_Airport), which is within, maybe 2 miles of the facility, so a much shorter transfer. > > I’m not going to say that it doesn’t freak out my lizard brain a bit, but that is in strong conflict with the logical part of my brain, which knows that things will likely be fine. They won’t even land there. They are transferring to a helicopter and being flown to Emory. There will be no land transport. ETA: technically, that’s landing. But no land transport. I think the transfer will happen on Cartersville, which is where the transport plane originated. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/23 "2014-08-01T12:14:47Z")
What do you think is going to happen in transit? Ebola is spread by bodily fluids. When was the last time you exchanged bodily fluids with someone passing by in a car? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Stilettos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Red\_Stilettos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Stilettos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/24 "2014-08-01T12:24:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > What do you think is going to happen in transit? Ebola is spread by bodily fluids. When was the last time you exchanged bodily fluids with someone passing by in a car? Is this directed at me? I’m not saying this because I’m worried about ground transport. I’m saying it because it’s what will actually happen. The SOP for this system is air transport to the Emory helipad. I agree that Ebola is easily contained in a modern hospital with sufficient PPE. This isn’t presenting a risk to the general population, but part of the reason for that is the extreme level of precaution taken at every step. They’ve been training for just this event for years. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/25 "2014-08-01T12:30:14Z")
I hope these two survive because I can guarantee a lucrative book and movie deal comes from this story if it’s got a happy ending. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/26 "2014-08-01T12:33:44Z")
The total risk can’t possibly be zero. People are fallible, machines break, protocols get skipped, unforeseeable external factors come into play. Anyone saying the risk is zero is automatically wrong. However, the risk here must have been assessed as _acceptably low_. It sure doesn’t look that way from my armchair, but I don’t have access to all the facts, or in some parts, the skills to properly evaluate them. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/27 "2014-08-01T12:54:34Z")
If ebola is too hard to contain here in the US under such controlled conditions after something possibly goes wrong the that means sooner or later its gonna get here anyway. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/28 "2014-08-01T13:22:09Z")
I am pretty sure the CDC already has samples of all the known Ebola strains as well as several other really deadly diseases, so the idea that Ebola wasn’t already here is misplaced. Given scientists routing deal with samples of things like small pox and virulent strains of the flu, I think we can be reasonable certain they will not be able to maintain safety protocols. I agree that transporting them may introduce small, unnecessary risks, but it may also provide greater insight as to how to treat Ebola in a first world country with modern medical practices. Ultimately, you often need to take such risks in order to advance the science. The added benefit is that these American citizens can at least be given the best chance to survive. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/29 "2014-08-01T13:25:22Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > There are five variants and I think this one is Ebola Zaire, which is dangerous but not the worst. Marburg disease (a cousin) is worse. This is incorrect. First of all Marburg is actually _less_ hazardous than ebola. Marburg typically kills around 30-40% of those infected, Ebola kills 50-90%. _Zaire ebolavirus_ is the most lethal of the human-infecting ebola varieties. Second, Marburg is not an “ebola virus”. Marburg and ebola are both members of the family _filoviridae_. The five varieties in the ebola genus are _Bundibugyo ebolavirus, Reston ebolavirus_ (named for the Reston, Virginia outbreak and apparently does _not_ cause illness humans, only certain species of monkeys, thank Og), _Sudan ebolavirus, Tai forest ebolavirus,_ and _Zaire ebolavirus_. The Marburg virus is a separate genus with the filovirus family, and the species is _Marburg marburgvirus._ > [@Cubsfan](#): > > I hope these two survive because I can guarantee a lucrative book and movie deal comes from this story if it’s got a happy ending. Depends on how you define “happy ending”. A disease such as this might well cause permanent organ damage. I certainly hope these people have a full recovery but they may have long-term problems from this disease. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/30 "2014-08-01T13:28:35Z")
That should say they will be able to maintain safety protocols. ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/31 "2014-08-01T13:42:12Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Depends on how you define “happy ending”. A disease such as this might well cause permanent organ damage. I certainly hope these people have a full recovery but they may have long-term problems from this disease. Not to mention that they are likely going to be pin-cushions for the CDC for the rest of their lives, however long or short it may be. ☹ The cynic in me sees this playing out similar to the scene in Aliens when the Corporation Bad Guy is explaining to Ripley that the easiest and best way to study the organism is to bring back someone infected with it. ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/32 "2014-08-01T13:45:17Z")
Im okay with the patient being treated… I am however protesting the idea that Atlanta is America’s heartland dammit… "He was a Midwestern boy on his on… ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/33 "2014-08-01T14:24:16Z")
I picked Yes based on the following criteria -reproduction number Ro and Case Fatality Rates. Here’s a number of diseases with their Ro and CFR values - I simply multiplied the Ro and CFR numbers to get a feel for a danger level of the disease. I’ll admit right now that the metric may be useless but I’m not pretending to be a immunologist. 🙂 Disease Ro CFR Ro \* CFR Measles 15 0.02 0.3 Pertussis 14.5 0.01 0.145 Diphtheria 6.5 0.075 0.4875 Smallpox 6 0.95 5.7 Polio 6 0.2 1.2 Rubella 6 0.02 0.12 Mumps 5.5 0.01 0.055 HIV/AIDS 3.5 0.85 2.975 SARS 3.5 0.11 0.385 Influenza 2.5 0.001 0.0025 Ebola 2.5 0.83 2.075 So using the Ro \* CFR values in descending order, Smallpox is the most dangerous followed by HIV then Ebola and Polio. So while it’s dangerous we’ve dealt with nastier things before and those tended to be kicked off in the wild and not in the form of a planned evacuation/treatment plan. ---
**Author:** ![Echo\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Echo\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Echo_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/34 "2014-08-01T14:26:31Z")
I accidentally clicked “No”. I meant “Yes”. The risk of the virus spreading in the United States due to these patients is negligible. [Here’s](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/sierraleone/11002041/I-would-sit-next-to-Ebola-sufferer-on-Tube-says-scientist-who-discovered-deadly-virus.html) a word from the scientist who helped to discover the virus: > [@](#): > > Piot co-discovered the Ebola virus as a 27-year-old researcher in 1976. > > He is now director of the prestigious London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and was previously executive director of the United Nations’ HIV/AIDS programme UNAIDS. > > Even if someone carrying Ebola were to fly to Europe, the United States or another part of Africa, “I don’t think that will give rise to a major epidemic,” he said on Wednesday. > > “Spreading in the population here, I’m not that worried about it,” he said. > > **“I wouldn’t be worried to sit next to someone with Ebola virus on the Tube as long as they don’t vomit on you or something. This is an infection that requires very close contact.”** ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/35 "2014-08-01T14:32:35Z")
“Hi! I have Ebola, but there’s nothing to worry about.” was recently voted the #2 thing bus passengers didn’t want to hear, edged out only by “Hmm, I’m stumped. What do you think, blue wire or red wire?” ---
**Author:** ![Lorene89095](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@Lorene89095](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorene89095)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/36 "2014-08-01T14:38:47Z")
There are more resorces here than in that poor bedraggled country. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/37 "2014-08-01T15:06:05Z")
Considering how close Patrick Sawyer got to coming home through regular channels carrying the virus, I don’t have too much worry about these two highly-contained patients. It seems inevitable that someone will get to these shores with the virus. Unless we refuse all passengers who have been to Africa in the last month, it will eventually come. Protocols need to be in place for that eventuality. StG ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/38 "2014-08-01T15:07:00Z")
Just be prepared for some forgotten vials of Ebola virus to turn up in a CDC closet 40 years from now. :eek: > [@Echo\_Charlie](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/sierraleone/11002041/I-would-sit-next-to-Ebola-sufferer-on-Tube-says-scientist-who-discovered-deadly-virus.html) a word from the scientist who helped to discover the virus: > [@](#): > > “I wouldn’t be worried to sit next to someone with Ebola virus on the Tube as long as they don’t vomit on you or something…” I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about, but that’s certainly an odd statement. > [@](#): > > Symptoms of Ebola HF typically include: > … > •Vomiting – [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/symptoms/) ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/39 "2014-08-01T15:11:33Z")
I just wouldn’t want the middle seat between these two guys, but apparently that’s not going to be a thing, so I say bring 'm home. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549/40 "2014-08-01T15:23:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The real danger is that bringing them here will probably inspire a bad ScyFy channel movie… There’s a good one? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-ebola-patients-flying-to-atlanta-is-this-a-good-idea-or-reckless/694549.md?page=3)