Two engines questions: cams and V-4s

Horizontally-opposed or “boxer” engines handle the first problem, but they still have the issues with duplication of precision machined flat surfaces and exhaust manifolds.

Despite that, they’ve been quite popular with Subaru and Porsche for a long time. IIRC, Honda uses 4- and 6-cylinder boxers in their Gold Wing line of motorcycles. What makes boxers so special? Is there anything beyond their vertical compactness and lower center of gravity?

An early Pontiac Tempest used a V-4 for a while. General Motors was always reluctant to build the tooling for an all new engine. The V-4, though, could be made with a cheap modification to the existing V-8 casting and boring tools.

The primary balance is fantastic. In a straight engine, the average momentum of the reciprocating parts is zero, but the “ups” aren’t in line with the “downs”, which gives you a wiggle as the crankshaft tries not to bend like a banana. A pair of horizonally-opposed pistons are almost in line, so this “rocking couple” as it’s called is much smaller. (They’re not directly in line as they can’t share a crankpin and still move in opposite directions.) A pair of boxer cylinders also have a natural 180 degree firing order, so firing impulses are symmetrical. The end result, particularly for a boxer multi, is a really smooth engine without needing to fool around with balancer shafts.

The low c.g. doesn’t hurt in a bike, either.

Sorry, Pontiac never used a V-4 in any of their vehicles. The 61-63 Ponitac Tempest was available with a 166 cubic inch 4 cylinder engine, the engine was made by slicing the right hand side of the block off a 326 V-8 engine. It was a very heavy engine for an inline 4 cylinder and suffered crankshaft and oiling problems. The Tempest also had the transmission bolted to the rear end instead of the engine and used a flexible driveshaft to transmit power between the two. I owned a couple of them in the late 70’s, the cars were dogs to drive.

OK a little imported car engine history.
As has been mentioned SAAB used a Ford Tannus V-4.
Yabob

This quote makes no sense. Are they saying that this engine had two crankshafts? Or are they saying that that the two pistons don’t share the same crank throw? Neither of which determines if it is a “real” V engine or not. The placement of the piston bores determines if the engine is a V or inline, or whatever. I have not had one of these engine apart, so I can’t comment further.
Now on to the Triumph / SAAB slant engine.
Back in about 1970 Triumph came out with a GT car called the Stag It was powered by a V8 engine with single overhead cams. It was a resounding dud. Triumph then sawed the engine in half lengthwise and sold the resulting slant 4 ito SAAB for the 99, and later used it in the TR-7. Having worked on these engines the only word I can use to describe them is craptacular. Weak cam chains, and a very strange water pump arangement that was inside the side of the block, and was very prone to leakage. A cylinder head that oozed coolant, and blew head gaskets. And the final straw, it used head studs, which in itself isn’t too bad, but there were two banks of them, and they were not parallel to each other. You had to unscrew one bank of studs (they came with screwdriver slots in the tops for doing this) so that you could remove the head. Remember what I said about the head oozing coolant? The coolant would ooze into the holes where the head studs were and corode them in place, so you could not unscrew the studs, and remove the head. I once spent almost 8 hours spread over 3 days just removing the head off a TR-7. :smiley:

Racer you are 100% correct about the Tempest. funny I was talking old cars with a guy at lunch and this car with its slant 4 and transaxle came up. The engine may have been heavy, but at least it did not make much power. :slight_smile:

Lancia designed and manufactured successful V-4 engines for many years Lancia V-4 . It was probably the pioneer of V configuration engines.

Boxer engines: Another advantage is low frontal area, as they are often used in light or piston driven aircraft.

Now, look at a V4 compared to a \ /4

The true V config attached at the same point at the bottom.

It looks like the pistons are on different throws – so the bores are still in a V
(though maybe offset along the crank)
If you look at the discussion page there’s a clue:-

Germans consider it a boxer not a V??

Ah, the infamous Triumph Snag, often seen in the UK butchered to fit a Rover 3.5 V8 instead of the misbegotten Triumph lump

I had to subscribe for this one. A question I can finally answer with SOME knowledge!

John Deere used two cylinder engines in their tractors through 1960. The diesel engines were a bear to crank over and start with the still developing electrical technology, ESPECIALLY in the cold in winter, etc. Some of the diesels were 471 cubic inches in TWO cylinders! Others were slightly smaller.

So Deere used little V-4 gasoline engines to crank over the large two cylinder diesels. They were called cranking engines. Most collectors call them pony motors, or a variety of swear words…depending on the condition of the V-4!

These engines were all of 19 cubic inches, ran at 5000RPM. The coolant was shared between the engines, and the V-4 exhaust was routed around the diesel air intake…while the V-4 warmed up, it warmed up the diesel’s coolant and incoming air!

The operator would pull a lever which engaged the V-4 to the 2 cylinder. IT cranked over the larger engine and allowed it to start.

Some general information and history of the starting systems:
http://www.twocylinderdiesel.com/General/starting.html#V4pony

A video of myself starting one of these pony start tractors:

I can answer any questions if need be. I’ve rebuilt a couple of these little V-4s. Very interesting!

Brandon

You know it took me a while to figure out why Gary T’s link to HowStuffWorks was a 404 error… Then I realized this thread was from 3 years ago!

zombies, zombies, run for your lives
“cams,cams,cams,cams”

V4??? Wow! You know, all the gearheads claimed “there’s no such thing as a V4 engine!” We all heard the same guff - it runs too rough, or something. So, is the SD sure there were true V4 engines, or some variation of a V formation, perhaps called a V4?

Oh good grief :smack: - maybe I should look at which thread I’m in before posting (I blame tabbed browsers!)
Sorry folks!

At least it seems to have brought Deereman along, welcome to the Dope and hopefully you’ll forgive this rave from the grave

Capt B. Phart

I’m used to working on ancient things, so I guess this thread was the perfect opener! :smack:

Jinx

The two engines I tore apart certainly looked like a V-4 to me!

How long before a mod comes along to dispatch this poor zombie to it’s rightful end? Too bad. I won’t be able to contribute much here, I’ve been a lurker for YEARS.

Brandon