# Two great, Unsung Directors **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 31, 2004, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886 "2004-01-31T06:41:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/21 "2004-02-01T09:21:16Z")
> [@DaPearl](#): > > I’ve heard good things about _The Life of David Gale_ You must have a magic radio that broadcasts messages from a parallel universe in which _The Life of David Gale_ didn’t suck like a black hole with a crack habit. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/22 "2004-02-01T15:29:10Z")
The only good thing about The Life of DG is that, in a free society, you’re free to avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/23 "2004-02-01T16:00:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Yasujiro Ozu (Tokyo Story, Floating Weeds), Ozu? Obscure? I don’t think so. He always tops the Sight&Sound Poll, along with Kubrick, Coppola, Donen, Hitchcock, Eisenstein, etc. How about Victor Sjostrom? _The Scarlet Letter?_ He was great, but if anyone knows his name, it’s for _Smulstronstallet._ ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/24 "2004-02-01T17:43:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Ozu? Obscure? I don’t think so. He always tops the Sight&Sound Poll, along with Kubrick, Coppola, Donen, Hitchcock, Eisenstein, etc _Sight & Sound_ polls film critics, so obviously they know and revere Ozu, but the general DVD-buying population does not, hence I call Ozu unsung. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/25 "2004-02-01T17:50:22Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > _Sight & Sound_ polls film critics, so obviously they know and revere Ozu, but the general DVD-buying population does not, hence I call Ozu unsung. I was making the point that he was commonly classed with the “greats” by anyone with at least a modicum of knowledge of the history of film. Several of his films are on the Criterion Collection, so most people who buy those DVD’s should have at least heard the name, and Criterion DVD’s are very popular. I can see your point, but the others you mentioned are far more “obscure” than Ozu. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/26 "2004-02-01T18:19:25Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > I was making the point that he was commonly classed with the “greats” by anyone with at least a modicum of knowledge of the history of film. Several of his films are on the Criterion Collection, so most people who buy those DVD’s should have at least heard the name, and Criterion DVD’s are very popular. > > I can see your point, but the others you mentioned are far more “obscure” than Ozu. Your average DVD buyer probably couldn’t recognize any American director who isn’t Steven Spielberg. Do you know the number #1 DVD retailer in the US? It’s Wal-mart, and I’d wager that the vast majority of their customers couldn’t even spell Ozu, let alone name any of his films. And even on film buff message boards, it’s disheartening to find that the only Japanese DVDs a large number of the posters have watched are anime. Film cognoscenti like you and **Lissener** are a tiny H[sub]2[/sub]O molecule in the great sea of the DVD-buying public. ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/27 "2004-02-01T19:33:26Z")
**John Sayle** - Sunshine State, Men with Guns, Lone Star, Eight Men Out, Matewan, Brother from Another Planet, Return of the Secaucus 7 (1980) **Jim Jarmusch** - Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai, Dead Man, Mystery Train, Down by Law, Stranger Than Paradise **Bruce McDonald** - Hard Core Logo, Highway 61, Roadkill ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/28 "2004-02-01T21:06:46Z")
This thread is highly amusing. It’s the mainstream fans who don’t know of the second-tier but fine directors vs. the art house snobs trying to see who can be more snide. In addition, most of the “unsung” directors have always gotten plenty of recognition. How about these: **Howard Zieff**. A too-short list of nice little quirky movies in the 70s and 80s. “Hearts of the West” is one of the best movies about moviemaking ever made (and has one of my favorite movie quotes of all time). “Slither” is great, too, and even his most mainstream films managed to avoid cliches. He even managed to remake Preston Sturges and do a stand-up job. **Lloyd Bacon**. Started in the silent days, but directed some of the best of the Warner musicals (he’s overshadowed by his choreographer, Busby Berkeley). There was also “The Oklahoma Kid,” notable for casting Cagney and Bogart as cowboys(!). He always put out a entertaining, snappy film. **Jack Arnold**. The king of 50s science fiction: “Creature from the Black Lagoon,” “It Came from Outer Space,” “Tarantula,” “The Incredible Shrinking Man,” along with “The Mouse That Roared” plus a lot of TV. Arnold’s films are dismissed without seeing them as cheap monster movies, but they all have a lot more to them than most modern SF. “It Came From Outer Space” is especially good, and has a twist that is still surprising today. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/29 "2004-02-01T21:25:57Z")
How is Jack Arnold obscure? ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/30 "2004-02-02T00:25:09Z")
'Cause _nobody’s_ heard of _Creature From The Black Lagoon_! 🙂 I have this wierd thing for sequels. I like _Return Of The Creature_ better. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/31 "2004-02-02T00:26:42Z")
I also have a _weird_ thing for sequels. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/32 "2004-02-02T00:38:46Z")
Peter Weir is pretty much my favorite director, so obviously I disagree with **lissener** ’s dismissal of him. Whatever, I don’t have a problem if he prefers to ignore some truly great films by a talented filmmaker. His call. 😃 However, even saying that he’s my favorite director, I can’t say that Weir is “unsung.” Though some of his better films are not very well-known, such as _Fearless_ (his unmatched masterpiece, in my opinion) or _Picnic at Hanging Rock_, he is certainly a director whose movies mast people have seen. _Witness_, _Green Card_, _Dead Poets Society_, _The Truman Show_, and last year’s _Master and Commander_ all made fairly big splashes, and many are still popular films now. Even if people might not know (or recongize) Weir’s name, his films are generally fairly well-received. So, “unsung”? I don’t think so. Perhaps “less popular than he justly deserves” would be a more accurate assessment. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/33 "2004-02-02T00:48:49Z")
I fail to understand how **Lissener** can so easily dismiss the director of **The Last Wave** and **Picnic at Hanging Rock** (I know a lot of folks like **The Cars that Ate Paris** , but that film just does nothing for me). ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/34 "2004-02-02T16:14:35Z")
> [@DaPearl](#): > > …when was the last time you’ve heard about the works of Alan Parker and Peter Weir; two great, unsung directors… As Peter Weir and his latest film were nominated for best picture and best director Academy Awards last month., I’d say they’re well-sung. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/35 "2004-02-02T17:08:12Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > How is Jack Arnold obscure? Most filmgoers nowadays have never heard of him. They may have heard of his movies, but few have actually watched them, other than to sneer at the special effects. I’m sure there are plenty of people who know of any of these choices, but I’m figuring you need to talk about the average filmgoer. When I talked about Jack Arnold to a group of people in a lecture on the history of SF film, no one had heard of him. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/36 "2004-02-02T19:31:13Z")
**John Boorman** –_Deliverance, Excalibur, The Emerald Forest, Point Blank, Hell in the Pacific, The Tailor of Panama, Catch Us If You Can,_ etc. ---
**Author:** ![gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eb8c5e/32.png) [@gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gentle)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/37 "2004-02-03T01:54:34Z")
> [@drm](#): > > He’s the main character in _The Reckoning_ and the trailer looks pretty cool. He’s also a lead (I think he’s the lead) in a movie called _Wimbledon_ (about guess which sport). Both of them have very respectable casts, one of them has to hit big. Bettany is great. _The Reckoning_, however, isn’t very. I enjoyed its high level of historical realism in depicting a cold, bleak and disease-ridden medieval England. The storytelling, however, is as cold as the landscape it depicts; there is, unfortunately, neither much drama nor emotion, and the plot is wholly unremarkable – nothing compared to, say, _The Name of the Rose_, a story it superficially resembles. Given the wonderful cast, which includes Brian Cox, Willem Dafoe and a rather campy Vincent Cassell, it’s outright disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![DaPearl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@DaPearl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaPearl)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/38 "2004-02-03T03:14:27Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Alan Parker and Peter Weir? > Both of these guys’ careers have been examples of steady mainstream success. Weir and Parker make _slightly_ more interesting choices than the whoriest of hollywood directors (e.g., Ron Howard, Rob Reiner, Michael Bay, Garry/Penny Marshall, and the old queen who ruined the Batman franchise, whose name escapes [mercifully] for the moment)–but ONLY slightly. Personally, either name on a movie poster (Parker, Weir) is more likely to make me think twice before getting in line than encourage me to do so. > > IMHO, a serious filmlover could avoid these guys entirely and not really miss anything. Upon reflection I’ll concede that my arguements for Parker are weak, but I still stand by Weir. It seems you’re basing your opinion of Weir based solely on the idea the commercial success=bad movie, which is a lazy and pretentious arguement. And you also bring up commercial success as recognition. Weir may be commercially successful, but is never discussed the way directors like Kubrick, Scorsese, and and Kurasawa are, and I consider him just as talented. His films are entertaining while carrying great substance. Weir is particularly adept at character studies, from sociological/anthropological (_Mosquito Coast[./i], transcendental (The Truman Show, and most recently leadership_). ---
**Author:** ![DaPearl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@DaPearl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaPearl)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/39 "2004-02-03T03:16:36Z")
> [@Dr. Rieux](#): > > **John Boorman** –_Deliverance, Excalibur, The Emerald Forest, Point Blank, Hell in the Pacific, The Tailor of Panama, Catch Us If You Can,_ etc. Word on Boorman. I particularly like _The Tailor of Panama_. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886/40 "2004-02-03T05:59:06Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by gentle_ > **Bettany is great. The Reckoning, however, isn’t very. I enjoyed its high level of historical realism in depicting a cold, bleak and disease-ridden medieval England. The storytelling, however, is as cold as the landscape it depicts; there is, unfortunately, neither much drama nor emotion, and the plot is wholly unremarkable – nothing compared to, say, The Name of the Rose, a story it superficially resembles. Given the wonderful cast, which includes Brian Cox, Willem Dafoe and a rather campy Vincent Cassell, it’s outright disappointing.** huh. That’s somewhat disappointing, oh well, can’t win them all I guess. I had no idea it had been released already. Did you see a final cut or is it a test screening? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-great-unsung-directors/226886.md?page=3)