# Two men cleared of rape by recording **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 24, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930 "2016-11-24T23:56:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/21 "2016-11-25T19:07:08Z")
It would be a good idea for everyone to have a hi-res video security system in their home. Not just for burglaries. Video of any interaction with people could save you in the event of a accusation. For example giving music lessons. A student claims you touched them. The video can prove otherwise. Or the maid claims you came onto her. The audio feed can exonerate you. It’s extremely important if you’re bringing home a date. You need proof the sex was consensual. We live in a insanely litigious society. You have to protect yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/22 "2016-11-25T19:20:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > We live in a insanely litigious society. You have to protect yourself. Not really. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/23 "2016-11-25T19:31:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It would be a good idea for everyone to have a hi-res video security system in their home. Not just for burglaries. > > Video of any interaction with people could save you in the event of a accusation. > > For example giving music lessons. A student claims you touched them. The video can prove otherwise. > > Or the maid claims you came onto her. The audio feed can exonerate you. > > It’s extremely important if you’re bringing home a date. You need proof the sex was consensual. > > We live in a insanely litigious society. You have to protect yourself. And when you get sued for filming someone without their permission? What then? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/24 "2016-11-25T19:36:32Z")
Don’t most people leave their video security system on 24/7? You don’t turn it off just because someone visits. Most of the video is never watched. Unless there’s a reason. Like a burglary. You set the file retention on the server. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/25 "2016-11-25T20:59:30Z")
This is too much like \*“It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia”, \*Dennis. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/26 "2016-11-25T21:02:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Don’t most people leave their video security system on 24/7? You don’t turn it off just because someone visits. > > Most of the video is never watched. Unless there’s a reason. Like a burglary. You set the file retention on the server. In their _bedrooms_? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/27 "2016-11-25T23:00:33Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I don’t believe or disbelieve a story from any one source; I try to read widely, remember? And you still believe that this story vindicates you, right? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/28 "2016-11-25T23:11:57Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > So yes. By all means, if you want to rape a married woman in Dubai, feel free to record it and you will likely not face any consequences. Happy? I think it’s more like, “If you want to rape women, by all means, move to Dubai.” ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/29 "2016-11-25T23:45:07Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > And you still believe that this story vindicates you, right? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/30 "2016-11-26T00:12:01Z")
Already happened in 2009. Hofstra University in NY. Woman is at a party with her boyfriend. She leaves, by herself. Decides on the spur of the moment to have groups sex in a bathroom with several strangers. One of the strangers videotapes the action. She comes back to her boyfriend’s room afterwards. He senses that something is up, calls her on it. She lies, says she was raped. The falsely accused men are brought before the TV cameras and roundly condemned nationwide as the worst sort of predators, the epitome of masculine evil. Then the phone video is revealed. Charges are dropped. No penalty for the false accuser. [Twisted motive behind rape story](http://nypost.com/2009/09/18/twisted-motive-behind-rape-story/) ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/31 "2016-11-26T00:19:33Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Many moons ago I started a hypothetical thread wherein someone was accused of rape and saved by his security system having accidentally recorded the sex. The accidental recording was roundly condemned. > > Well, truth is stranger than fiction: the Daily Mail reports that [two men have just been vindicated](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3967686/We-ve-branded-gang-rapists-no-evidence-whatsoever-Two-men-cleared-sex-attack-married-British-woman-Dubai-reveal-relief-case-collapses-free-fly-home.html) after being falsely accused of raping a woman because one of the men recorded it all. > > It seems to me that now any casual sex is going to be recorded for the safety of men. > > And, of course, the false accuser is still granted anonymity. You aren’t going to get much traction on this board for this issue. The official position here is that false accusations almost never happen, and all accusations should be taken as true. /S If some men are hurt by this, well, they were asking for it, weren’t they? If they didn’t want to have their lives destroyed, their academic careers ended and reputation ruined, what were they doing having sex outside of a committed relationship anyway? And even if they were in a committed relationship, what did they do to make the woman angry? After all, that’s what’s really important. A woman is pissed off. Something must be done about it! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/32 "2016-11-26T01:54:55Z")
Where did anyone in this thread say that false accusations don’t happen? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/33 "2016-11-26T02:09:12Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Where did anyone in this thread say that false accusations don’t happen? :dubious: I didn’t say “this thread.” ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/34 "2016-11-26T02:30:42Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > I didn’t say “this thread.” You didn’t say \*where \*either, you only said **here**. On Earth? Online? In whatever corner of the world you inhabit? On this site? Or in this thread, the current frame of reference these posters have in this discussion? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/35 "2016-11-26T03:43:10Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Then the phone video is revealed. \*\*Charges are dropped. No penalty for the false accuser. > \*\* Emphasis mine. Incorrect. The false accuser in the Hofstra case was given 250 hours of community service and—more importantly, i think, in this case—was required to undergo (and pay for) one year of psychiatric counseling. You might not think that this penalty was sufficient, and i would possibly agree with you, depending on what her mental status is. But whether you think that or not, your assertion of “no penalty” is flat out wrong. As for the case raised in this thread, you and the OP will have to forgive me if i prefer not to jump to any conclusions quite yet. Without further evidence, i’m not inclined to grant the Dubai authorities much credibility regarding what does and does not constitute consensual sex, given the attitude to sex and to women’s rights in the United Arab Emirates. Here’s a [case](http://abcnews.go.com/International/Media/arab-woman-retracts-rape-allegation/story?id=10734780) from 2010 where a woman retracted her allegation of gang-rape after she was “threatened with lashes for having premarital sex.” As one Dubai-based analyst said: > [@](#): > > “It’s the nature of the law. The status here is that if a female is caught having illegal sex, no matter what the instance, this is seen as haram [forbidden],” he said. So, in the case that began this thread, the police organization making the claim that the cellphone video showed consensual sex is the same police organization that arrests women for making accusations of rape. I don’t have much confidence that the people involved in this criminal justice system understand consent in quite the same way that i do. I’d be willing to bet that if they saw a video of an extremely drunk or drugged (and therefore non-resisting and non-combative) woman having sex, they would conclude that the sex was consensual. I’m not discounting the possibility that the woman simply lied. The Hofstra case, and some other over the years, shows that this does sometimes happen. But right now, when the authorities i’m being asked to trust in this case are the the Dubai authorities, i’m not willing to grant full credence to their interpretation of events without further evidence. Frankly, i’d need to see the video myself, although i understand that this is unlikely to happen. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/36 "2016-11-26T04:15:45Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Huh? I was going to write a response but **mhendo** did a better job. You, **Ace** and **BJ** all believe that the world is filled are false accusers, you need to video your sex acts, and that this story demonstrates you’re correct; but others of us don’t agree. As **mhendo** and I have posted, the police there have a different standard for consent. The video could very well be damning evidence if the incident had occurred in the States or the UK. At which point, video taping your crime doesn’t seem like such a bright idea, does it? I’m sure that Brock Turner is really happy that he kept his phone in his pocket. Before you get your panties in a further twist, I’m not saying that false accusations never occur. Obviously they do. However, it’s just not the clear-cut case which you believe. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/37 "2016-11-26T06:05:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It would be a good idea for everyone to have a hi-res video security system in their home. Not just for burglaries. > > Video of any interaction with people could save you in the event of a accusation. > > For example giving music lessons. A student claims you touched them. The video can prove otherwise. > > Or the maid claims you came onto her. The audio feed can exonerate you. > > It’s extremely important if you’re bringing home a date. You need proof the sex was consensual. > > We live in a insanely litigious society. You have to protect yourself. You forgot that good citizens should upload all their videos to the local Stasi once a week. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/38 "2016-11-26T08:01:25Z")
Video surveillance and alarm systems are everywhere. Most new homes come with them. You can buy a DIY multi camera wireless system for under $800. I plan to get estimates from a local security company after the holidays. My neighborhood has declined in the past decade and I need a monitored security system. There’s nothing wrong with using that video to clear yourself of accusations to. Maybe some neighbor claims I punched him. I’d be stupid not to use that video to clear my name. I don’t expect for a situation like that to occur. Video is primarily something you can provide police after a break in. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/39 "2016-11-26T08:17:28Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > You… believe that the world is filled are false accusers Umm… no. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930/40 "2016-11-26T10:11:40Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Umm… no. Right. Sure you don’t. That’s why in the other thread you cherry picked a study which claims that up to 50% of reports of rapes are false and why you are fixated on recording sexual encounters as evidence against false accusations, starting this thread to remind us of your earlier thoughts. That’s all just evidence that you don’t believe it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-men-cleared-of-rape-by-recording/772930.md?page=3)