# Two more women sentenced to stoning in Nigeria **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522 "2004-10-16T05:26:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/1 "2004-10-16T05:26:59Z")
There are not enough off-color words for this sort of thing: [http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/10/12/stoning.reut/](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/10/12/stoning.reut/) :mad: :mad: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/2 "2004-10-16T10:57:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Islamic courts in Nigeria sentenced two women to death by stoning for having sex out of wedlock, but two men whom they said they slept with were acquitted for lack of evidence, authorities said Tuesday. Fascinating how, once again, the case against the female half of a fornicating pair is strong enough to merit the stoning to death penalty, but the prosecution just couldn’t show enough evidence to convict the male partner. If I didn’t have, ya know, respect for the rich cultural diversity of all my fellow passengers here on Spaceship Earth, and a deep understanding that no culture is innately better than any other culture, I might begin to suspect that the Islamic courts in Nigeria are just the teensiest biased against women when hearing these cases. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/3 "2004-10-16T13:06:37Z")
I haven’t read the article, but in most of these situations the womens’ ‘guilt’ is easily proven: she is/was pregnant (and therefore had sex) and isn’t married. No witnesses needed. For a man to be convicted of having been that particular sex partner you’d need dna tests (not exactly commonly available in Nigeria) and/or eyewitnesses. I believe three are required, and not just any three, it must be three upright Islamic males. Given the nature of either voluntary or forced sex, it’s vanishingly unlikely that any male can be convicted. So, yes, the deck is stacked against the women, but to a large degree that’s because God/evolution has stuck women with the most obvious consequence of sex. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the _courts_ would require the same three eyewitness standard to convict a woman of sex outside marriage, assuming she hadn’t become pregnant. (I say _court_, because I’m well aware husband/family members can ‘avenge’ their honor based on nothing more than suspicion. But that’s a different OP.) ---
**Author:** ![ninetypercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@ninetypercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ninetypercent)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/4 "2004-10-16T13:32:26Z")
How does the law go? I was reading about this practice a few months ago. They bury a man to below his shoulders and if he escapes, he is free. The same applies to a woman, the difference being that they bury her to her neck. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/5 "2004-10-16T13:54:01Z")
Women are evil I tell ya. They cause men to have bad thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/6 "2004-10-16T15:07:50Z")
Even Aldeberan will not man the barricades for these people. If there WERE someone around to defend these Sharia laws, they’d mounta defense that goes like this: **1.) These events are isolated incidents and don’t really represent Islamic law** (A quick Google search indicates that women have recently (within the last couple of years) died in similar ways under Sharia law in Sudan, UAE, Iran and Saudi Arabia as well). **2) Most Muslims don’t go for this stoning stuff and would just as soon it never happened to anyone** (Possibly true, but it requires mind-reading abilities to validate, and in the meantime, it’s reasonable to ask how all these Sharia laws got in place when everybody hates them. Also, what is the rise of Islamic fundamentalism all about if not the institution of Sharia law? If Muslims hate this stuff so much, why is Islamic fundamentalism so successful?) **3) Stuff that’s just as bad happens in Western countries** (Not as part of their legal systems, buddy. In Western countries we call people who do stuff like this psychopaths, and deal with them accordingly. We don’t call 'em “judge”) **4) Islam teaches men to respect and honor women** (On the evidence, it teaches respect so long as women act as Islamic law proscribes, otherwise Islam teaches men to be incredibly brutal toward women. **5) Lots of women love Islam and will tell you it’s not sexist** I’m betting they’re not the ones buried in a pit up to their necks with rocks being thrown at their heads. Sounds like they’re kinda, y’know, INDIFFERENT to the fate of their sisters. **6. More men are killed by stoning than women under Islamic law** True. And this is a good thing because … ? Hey, Islam walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It’s a duck. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/7 "2004-10-16T23:00:45Z")
I have nothing good to say about the barbarity of treating adultery as a capital crime, much less the barbarism of execution by stoning. However, I have to say that attempts to tar all Islamic cultures with the “barbarism” brush because of a few such sentences don’t make sense. Does anyone seriously believe that adultery among Muslims is **typically** punished by stoning? Perhaps a few such sentences are carried out every year worldwide. And how many Muslims commit adultery every year? Gotta be millions. Obviously, although these medieval sentencing laws are still part of the Islamic legal systems in many countries following the Sharia, **most** Muslims don’t consider them binding. [Stoning in the Muslim world: sanctioned by Sharia but rarely applied](http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/cg/Qnigeria-islam-religion.RUnb_DSP.html) (2003): > [@](#): > > Under the Islamic penal code, men dealt such punishment are buried up to their hips prior to stoning, while women are buried up to the chest. Anyone who manages to escape goes free. > > In Gulf states, Sharia still allows adulterers to be stoned to death but the sentence is has fallen out of use, at least publicly. > > In the United Arab Emirates, the last person sentenced to death by stoning for adultery was an Indonesian housemaid but her sentence was commuted to one year in prison in April 2000. > > In Pakistan, where Sharia is known under the name Hudood laws, none of the condemnations to death by stoning have been carried out, though the penalty still exists on the statute books for people convicted of adultery. > > Womens’ rights organizations there have led a fierce campaign against the code, promulgated under the dictatorship of the late General Zia ul-Haq in 1979, which they consider highly discriminatory. (And by the way, let’s not forget that in many Christian societies homosexual acts were capital crimes until well into the 19th century. Let’s also not forget that even today, groups such as the Christian Reconstructionists formally advocate returning to a theocratic legal system **including** execution by stoning for various crimes including adultery. Obviously, this **ain’t** some uniquely Islamic thing.) ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/8 "2004-10-17T03:40:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Hajara Ibrahim, a **29** -year-old woman, was sentenced on October 5… “The court has however handed the woman convict to her _ **guardian** _… [”] [!!!] (bolding, italics and STUNNED exclamation points mine…) A 29 y.o. woman needs a gaurdian in an Islamic country??? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/9 "2004-10-17T04:42:09Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > So, yes, the deck is stacked against the women, but to a large degree that’s because God/evolution has stuck women with the most obvious consequence of sex. The deck is stacked against women because the slime who run these kangeroo courts are sexist pigs. God and evolution have nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/10 "2004-10-17T11:35:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I have nothing good to say about the barbarity of treating adultery as a capital crime, much less the barbarism of execution by stoning. > > However, I have to say that attempts to tar all Islamic cultures with the “barbarism” brush because of a few such sentences don’t make sense. Does anyone seriously believe that adultery among Muslims is **typically** punished by stoning? > > Perhaps a few such sentences are carried out every year worldwide. And how many Muslims commit adultery every year? Gotta be millions. Obviously, although these medieval sentencing laws are still part of the Islamic legal systems in many countries following the Sharia, **most** Muslims don’t consider them binding. Even one is too many. We’re not talking about a minor quirk of another countries’ legal system. We’re talking about the institutionalized violation of human rights. > [@](#): > > (And by the way, let’s not forget that in many Christian societies homosexual acts were capital crimes until well into the 19th century. Let’s also not forget that even today, groups such as the Christian Reconstructionists formally advocate returning to a theocratic legal system **including** execution by stoning for various crimes including adultery. Obviously, this **ain’t** some uniquely Islamic thing.) But it will never actually be applied in Real Life. We have the Bill of Rights and the Canadian Charter of Rights And Freedoms 'round these parts, which forbid such callousness from ever becoming law and/or practice. When atrocities happen in the Western world, we denounce them roundly, from our scholars to our politicians and in our schools. I have yet to see such a widespread and unanimous denunciation from the Muslim world when their atrocities come to light. Until they choose to do so, they will have to accept that those of us who believe in and live out the principles of equality, will tar them with the brush of their most dastardly members. It’s up to them. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/11 "2004-10-17T14:53:09Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] I have nothing good to say about the barbarity of treating adultery as a capital crime, much less the barbarism of execution by stoning. However, I have to say that attempts to tar all Islamic cultures with the “barbarism” brush because of a few such sentences don’t make sense. Does anyone seriously believe that adultery among Muslims is **typically** punished by stoning? [quote] Your response fails to address point 2 in my post. If Muslims don’t go for this brutal stuff, why is fundamentalist Islam, which embraces Sharia laws which are the source of the brutality, on the rise? ISTM that the fact that adultery isn’t punished by stoning more often is a disappointment to a lot of Muslims, given the appeal fundamentalist Islam has. > [@](#): > > Perhaps a few such sentences are carried out every year worldwide. And how many Muslims commit adultery every year? Gotta be millions. I have no idea. Any stats avaialable? > [@](#): > > (And by the way, let’s not forget that in many Christian societies homosexual acts were capital crimes until well into the 19th century. Let’s also not forget that even today, groups such as the Christian Reconstructionists formally advocate returning to a theocratic legal system **including** execution by stoning for various crimes including adultery. Obviously, this **ain’t** some uniquely Islamic thing.) Moot point. Try to keep your points in this century. And so far as I know, Christian Reconstructionists are way on the fringe in all Western countries. They don’t have their hands on the levers of power, as the fundie Muslims do in several Muslim countries. Not apples and oranges my friend. And I think the stoning is just the bloody tip of a huge iceberg of brutality and sexism that’s implicit in Islam as it’s practiced in many countries. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/12 "2004-10-17T15:35:36Z")
This should teach those dirty bitches. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/13 "2004-10-17T16:18:18Z")
> [@](#): > > In the United Arab Emirates, the last person sentenced to death by stoning for adultery was an Indonesian housemaid but her sentence was commuted to one year in prison in April 2000. Oh, well, _that’s_ good. Instead of being stoned to death, she got a year in prison for having sex. ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/14 "2004-10-17T16:33:08Z")
One can only hope that these sentences are overturned on appeal. With regards to Sharia law, it seems as ridiculous as any law that is based on religious doctrine. Of the many consequences that resulted from the fall of the Taliban, some of which were undesirable, the excision of religious law was one of the most welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/15 "2004-10-17T16:33:59Z")
No one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle… ---
**Author:** ![backerack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f05b48/32.png) [@backerack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/backerack)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/16 "2004-10-17T17:49:06Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Oh, well, _that’s_ good. Instead of being stoned to death, she got a year in prison for having sex. Maybe you should read what is the maxium punishment the US military has for [Adultery](http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-2.htm). While you’re reading don’t forget to check out some of the other laws they have for: [Bigamy](http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-5.htm), or (here’s an interesting one) [“Wrongful Cohabitation”](http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-9.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/17 "2004-10-17T18:03:53Z")
Ah. I guess Indonesian housemaids have to sign a “no-sex” clause before they start dusting. How about Cuban poolboys? (Quickly reedits my Cuban poolboy contract) ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/18 "2004-10-17T18:43:40Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > If there WERE someone around to defend these Sharia laws, they’d mounta defense that goes like this: What, we’re anticipating, creating, numbering and knocking down our straw men, _all in the same post_ now? Least we get carried away; we don’t have to look too far for a country with controversial death sentences. Or laws that are unpopular, or laws that prohibite what you’d think would be a private matter between two adults, or men who don’t follow their religion’s guidance towards women, or religions with their fair share of sexist pronouncements and women who never-the-less follow them, or countires where more men than women are killed by state execution. This is a shameful and barbaric aspect of Nigeria’s excuse for a legal system. But your extrapolation is bollocks. Those sweeping generalisation could cover more than you’d think. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/19 "2004-10-17T19:02:16Z")
Could someone please, please point out to me to how I can take action against these stonings? Has Amnesty International started an e-mail campaign like they did last time, for [Amina Lawal ?](http://www.amnesty.nl/persberichten/NK-PB0098.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![backerack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f05b48/32.png) [@backerack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/backerack)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/20 "2004-10-17T19:19:00Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Moot point. Try to keep your points in this century. And so far as I know, Christian Reconstructionists are way on the fringe in all Western countries. > [@kung fu lola](#): > > We have the Bill of Rights and the Canadian Charter of Rights And Freedoms 'round these parts, which forbid such callousness from ever becoming law and/or practice. > > When atrocities happen in the Western world, we denounce them roundly, from our scholars to our politicians and in our schools. It’s funny (“funny” as in strange not humorous) that whenever someone brings out one of the latest atrocities committed in a Muslim country there are many people coming out to bang their self righteous drum like they are Fucking Amnesty International. Yes, Christian nuts are on the fringe in most western countries, but then again it’s that way for Islamic nuts in western counties too. However, if you go to some Non-Western, non-developed counties you will find some very Christian (Muslim, Hindu, atheist) nuts who are as every bit as brutal, cruel, and unjust as some Muslims are. In this world Christians (and other non-Muslims): still burn witches at the stake, they kill and arrest Homosexuals, they buy human organs for good luck charms, they practice FGM, they oppress women, they commit ethnic cleansing, they start bloody wars, they own slaves, they commit genocide, and watch tele-tubbies. Muslims didn’t invent cruelty, they haven’t perfected a new kind of human suffering, and injustice isn’t anything unique to the Muslims hordes. That kind of shit has been going on for as long as humans been alive. Muslims have no copy write on it, to say so is incorrect. The fact is **lavenderlemon** had it right about this case. > [@](#): > > The deck is stacked against women because the slime who run these kangeroo courts are sexist pigs. God and evolution have nothing to do with it. However, when someone digs up a story about Muslims it’s always “clit cutters!”, “Savages!”, or “Animals!” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522.md?page=2)