# Two more women sentenced to stoning in Nigeria **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522 "2004-10-16T05:26:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![backerack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f05b48/32.png) [@backerack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/backerack)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/21 "2004-10-17T19:30:45Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > I have yet to see such a widespread and unanimous denunciation from the Muslim world when their atrocities come to light. Until they choose to do so, they will have to accept that those of us who believe in and live out the principles of equality, will tar them with the brush of their most dastardly members. It’s up to them. Quit being a self righteous prick, you are every bit as responsible for this crime against humanity as a Muslim is. Trying to distance yourself from it, by tarring Muslims with the “Extremist Brush” is hypocritical self righteousness. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/22 "2004-10-17T20:04:03Z")
**EC:** _If Muslims don’t go for this brutal stuff, why is fundamentalist Islam, which embraces Sharia laws which are the source of the brutality, on the rise?_ Obviously **some** Muslims do support this legalized brutality, just as **some** Christians and members of other faiths do. The question as to why there tend to be **more** hardcore fundamentalist extremists among third-world Muslims than among, say, first-world Christians is an interesting and complicated one. But it can’t be reduced to the simplistic assumption that Islam is just somehow more “naturally” brutal. **EC:** _Try to keep your points in this century._ As **backerack** already pointed out, there are plenty of brutal Christians and other non-Muslims routinely committing similar barbarities right now. (By the way, the general atrocity of “honor killings”—murder of a female relative or spouse for having unauthorized sex—is considered to be a \*\*pre-\*\*Islamic practice that has survived in Muslim and non-Muslim societies alike. Compare it to the still-common legal practice in the US of acquittal or light sentences for “heat of passion” murders where a man kills his cheating wife or girlfriend.) **kfl:** _When atrocities happen in the Western world, we denounce them roundly, from our scholars to our politicians and in our schools._ That conveniently ignores the fact that many people in the Western world **don’t** denounce atrocities such as the murder of homosexuals, or the Oklahoma City bombing, and in fact encourage such atrocities with highly-publicized condemnations of the victims (cf. Westboro Baptist’s famous “Matthew Shepard’s Entry into Hell” memorial). As I said, it’s important to recognize that condoning such atrocities tends to be **more prevalent** in third-world Muslim countries than in the developed West, and to understand the reasons why this is so. But to say “well, it’s all because of Islam” is lazy and ignorant. **kfl:** \*I have yet to see such a widespread and unanimous denunciation from the Muslim world when their atrocities come to light. \* You and everybody else have yet to see a **unanimous** denunciation of Western atrocities within the Western world, either. It is setting the bar impossibly, unfairly high to demand that **every Muslim in the world** condemn Islamist-extremist barbarities before you’ll stop blaming them on Islam in general. **kfl:** _Until they choose to do so, they will have to accept that those of us who believe in and live out the principles of equality, will tar them with the brush of their most dastardly members._ Yes, Muslims and everybody else do have to accept that there are ignorant and prejudiced people in the world, who are willing to tar a billion-plus people with the brush of their most barbaric extremists. But that doesn’t mean that we have to think it’s okay. The barbarism of extremists is not an excuse for the ignorance and prejudice of people who ought to know better. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/23 "2004-10-17T21:50:03Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Could someone please, please point out to me to how I can take action against these stonings? Has Amnesty International started an e-mail campaign like they did last time, for [Amina Lawal ?](http://www.amnesty.nl/persberichten/NK-PB0098.shtml) I was just looking at their site; unfortunately my server won’t cooperate so my searches for Nigeria and Stoning didn’t result in any returns. They are running a number of campaigns, including one to stop violence against women, but I don’t see anything specifically related to these two women. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/24 "2004-10-18T00:29:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > [Compare it to the still-common legal practice in the US of acquittal or light sentences for “heat of passion” murders where a man kills his cheating wife or girlfriend.) Do you have cites for this being a) “still-common” in the U.S., and b) selectively applying to crimes against women as opposed to crimes against men? ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/25 "2004-10-18T03:39:28Z")
> [@backerack](#): > > It’s funny (“funny” as in strange not humorous) that whenever someone brings out one of the latest atrocities committed in a Muslim country there are many people coming out to bang their self righteous drum like they are Fucking Amnesty International. Yes, Christian nuts are on the fringe in most western countries, but then again it’s that way for Islamic nuts in western counties too. However, if you go to some Non-Western, non-developed counties you will find some very Christian (Muslim, Hindu, atheist) nuts who are as every bit as brutal, cruel, and unjust as some Muslims are. > > In this world Christians (and other non-Muslims): still burn witches at the stake, they kill and arrest Homosexuals, they buy human organs for good luck charms, they practice FGM, they oppress women, they commit ethnic cleansing, they start bloody wars, they own slaves, they commit genocide, and watch tele-tubbies. > > Muslims didn’t invent cruelty, they haven’t perfected a new kind of human suffering, and injustice isn’t anything unique to the Muslims hordes. That kind of shit has been going on for as long as humans been alive. Muslims have no copy write on it, to say so is incorrect. I don’t care what religion the perpetrators of such atrocities are; wrong is wrong. But _Sha’ria_ law, which is what we’re talking about, belongs to Islam, and the way it is being implemented in Nigeria is monstrous. Period. As for mister Guests’ opinion, I’m not the only person who thinks that Muslims have been strangely silent on the subject of horrific acts allegedly committed in the name of Allah. [Irshad Manji](http://www.muslimrefusenik.com) agrees with me, and so do other people around here. I think that holding the Muslim community accountable to its own members is a perfectly fair position to take. I accept accountability for the actions of groups of which I am a member. If I ever don’t want to, I distance myself from them. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/26 "2004-10-18T04:06:15Z")
> [@](#): > > , they kill and arrest Homosexuals …usually not in that order. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/27 "2004-10-18T06:05:11Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > I don’t care what religion the perpetrators of such atrocities are; wrong is wrong. But _Sha’ria_ law, which is what we’re talking about, belongs to Islam, and the way it is being implemented in Nigeria is monstrous. Period. > > As for mister Guests’ opinion, I’m not the only person who thinks that Muslims have been strangely silent on the subject of horrific acts allegedly committed in the name of Allah. [Irshad Manji](http://www.muslimrefusenik.com) agrees with me, and so do other people around here. I think that holding the Muslim community accountable to its own members is a perfectly fair position to take. I accept accountability for the actions of groups of which I am a member. If I ever don’t want to, I distance myself from them. Simple as that. And what exactly have you done to distance yourself from the millions of other white people (assuming a bit here- if I’m wrong, insert applicable generalization) who have benefited in some way from slavery (as before, insert applicable atrocity here)? Not a thing, obviously, as well you shouldn’t- no more than you should expect a billion people to apologise for the actions of a few. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/28 "2004-10-18T06:54:58Z")
According to [Amnesty](http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR440092004?open&of=ENG-NGA), in 2003 a few other Nigerian women had their stoning-sentences quashed on hgher appeal: > [@](#): > > This latest development follows a number of cases where convictions and sentences to death have been quashed on appeal, including most recently the case of Yunusa Rafin Chiyawa on 14 November 2003. > > “The quashing, on appeal, of another conviction and sentence to death by stoning under the new Sharia penal legislation on the grounds that the trial was unfair, is a positive trend,” Amnesty International said. > > Jubrin Babaji was convicted and sentenced on 25 September 2003 for the offence termed as ‘sodomy’ in Section 133 of the Sharia Penal Code Law 2001 of Bauchi State. An appeal was submitted by the Nigerian non-governmental organization Legal Defence and Assistance Project (LEDAP) which provided a team of defence lawyers. [Here’s a background article](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/nigeria/document.do?id=326565DE7A53C81580256E7E0041F90B) on Sharia-law in Nigeria. [Amnesty’s ACT-NOW](http://www.amnesty.org/actnow/) doesn’t list a campaign one for these two Nigerian women, although there have been other campaigns against Nigerian stoning sentences in the last 12 months. (for a convicted a couple, among others). I’ll write an e-mail for Amnesty asking them to start an e-mail campaign for these two. I hope many other Dopers will do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/29 "2004-10-18T10:14:19Z")
13 year old girl sentenced to death by stoning after her 15 year old brother impregnated her. Brother sentenced to 150 lashes for same crime. > **[13-åring skal være dømt til døden i Iran](https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/i/0Ej8dM/13-aaring-skal-vaere-doemt-til-doeden-i-iran)** > > En iransk jente på 13 år er dømt til døden ved steining etter at den 15 år gamle broren hennes gjorde henne gravid, melder Aftonbladet. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/30 "2004-10-18T10:29:26Z")
I would imagine that Amnesty will start a campaign soon. Of course, they’re good for getting the names and the relevant facts, but that doesn’t prevent one from writing anyway. What I don’t understand is why the Nigerian government allows Shari’a to take control in those areas. I suppose they’re trying to avoid civil war. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/31 "2004-10-18T11:01:58Z")
Although I think that **Kinstu** ’s defense of Islam reflects an uncritical and way too Pollyannaish view of the corrupt influence religion has on civic institutions in Muslim countries, we who live in the US are in no position to [criticize.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=281077) Our religious goons have way too much power, too. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/32 "2004-10-18T11:48:52Z")
The death penalty, in any form, for any crime is inhumane and wrong. Stoning someone for adultery is horribly inhumane. So is lethal injection, electric chair and gassing for murder. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/33 "2004-10-18T12:11:13Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > I think that holding the Muslim community accountable to its own members is a perfectly fair position to take. I accept accountability for the actions of groups of which I am a member. If I ever don’t want to, I distance myself from them. Simple as that. Oh no, you “accepting accountability” isn’t good enough. By the standards you apply to the “strangely silent” Muslims we expect a public apology and/or distancing from you for each and every injustice that ever happens in and by your “group”. Please note; you don’t get to decide who your “group” is. We’ll decide that for you and call on you when the apology/distancing is expected. Start with your gender, then move on to your society, religion (if applicable), country and work your way on down. Don’t forget to include all internet crime too. If we’re going to do this 'community accountability" thing properly there are no half measures. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/34 "2004-10-18T12:24:29Z")
🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/35 "2004-10-18T19:00:49Z")
So far, what has happened to the condemned Nigerian women who had their sentences overturned on appeal? Are they set free, or do they have to serve time in prison? ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/36 "2004-10-18T19:31:18Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > And what exactly have you done to distance yourself from the millions of other white people (assuming a bit here- if I’m wrong, insert applicable generalization) who have benefited in some way from slavery (as before, insert applicable atrocity here)? > > Not a thing, obviously, as well you shouldn’t- no more than you should expect a billion people to apologise for the actions of a few. It’s not just apologies that are in order. It’s social change. It doesn’t even need to be stated that the Western World is not perfect. And yet, we do not institutionalize and condone a constant stream of misogynistic and abusive incidents. I could find you a cite every week for the next year of another Sharia court sentencing a woman to death, another “Honour Killing”, another piece of paranoia-mongering rhetoric against Jews, women, the West, etc. spouted from the mouth of a Mullah. The fact is, two of three of these things are not being perpetrated by private citizens, they are being perpetrated by people who represent a religion. I’m not going to let them off the hook for that. If the people don’t want to be known by these fruits, plant different trees. I don’t think it’s unfair to ask that. If Islam is the religion of peace, then let their leaders practice it peacefully and use it to create peace in the world. If the Koran says that women and men are equal, and Muslims follow the Koran, then let women and men have equality. I’m just getting a little tired of hearing the same lip service and not seeing any goods delivered. It takes too many mental gymnastics to reconcile what Muslims in the news say about Islam, and how they practice it in real life, which shows up on CBC news with a body count. As individuals, I have absolutely zero problems with Muslims. I’m not going to trot out the “best friends” line, but there are Muslims in my life that I work and play with, prepare food for, break bread with, and respect. But when it comes to insitutions like “Muslim Countries” and “Muslim Governments” and “Muslim Courts”, someone is seriously dropping the ball. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/37 "2004-10-18T19:59:14Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > According to [Amnesty](http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR440092004?open&of=ENG-NGA), in 2003 a few other Nigerian women had their stoning-sentences quashed on hgher appeal: > [Here’s a background article](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/nigeria/document.do?id=326565DE7A53C81580256E7E0041F90B) on Sharia-law in Nigeria. > > [Amnesty’s ACT-NOW](http://www.amnesty.org/actnow/) doesn’t list a campaign one for these two Nigerian women, although there have been other campaigns against Nigerian stoning sentences in the last 12 months. (for a convicted a couple, among others). > > I’ll write an e-mail for Amnesty asking them to start an e-mail campaign for these two. I hope many other Dopers will do the same. I just did. Thanks, **Maastricht**. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/38 "2004-10-18T20:06:52Z")
I’d be confident that Amnesty are busy preparing their appeal already - their policy is that, except where days or even hours could make a difference, it is far better for them to prepare a detailed and accurate understanding of exactly what has happened in the case, so to make the campaign more effective. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/39 "2004-10-18T22:45:03Z")
**Jackmannii:** _Do you have cites for this [light sentencing for killing an adulterous spouse/SO] being a) “still-common” in the U.S., and b) selectively applying to crimes against women as opposed to crimes against men?_ Consider the following 1994 article inspired by [just such a case:](http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/vaw00/lewin.html) > [@](#): > > Mr. Peacock, caught in an ice storm last February while traveling from Pennsylvania to Florida, got no answer when he called his wife to say he was coming home. When he arrived around midnight, his wife was in bed, naked, with another man. > > Mr. Peacock chased the other man away at gunpoint, and at about 4 A.M., after drinking and arguing, shot his wife in the head with a hunting rifle. > > He pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter, but his sentencing on Monday in Baltimore County Circuit Court set off protests. Judge Robert E. Cahill sentenced Mr. Peacock to 18 months in prison, saying that he wished he did not have to send him to prison at all, but knew he must “to make the system honest.” > > “I seriously wonder how many men married five, four years would have the strength to walk away without inflicting some corporal punishment,” said Judge Cahill, referring to the circumstances of the case. He has since declined to discuss the case. […] > > Sue Osthoff, director of the National Clearinghouse for the Defense of Battered Women in Philadelphia, contrasted Mr. Peacock’s sentence with those imposed on battered women who killed their husbands – dozens of whom, she said, are sentenced to 15 years or more. > > “In the vast majority of cases where women kill their husbands, they do so because they think he is going to kill them or their children,” she said. “Whatever pain this man felt at seeing his wife with someone else, he wasn’t going to die.” […] > > “Over the years, the law has developed a whole series of categories of things that might cause a reasonable person to kill in the heat of passion,” said Stephen Schulhofer, who teaches criminal law at the University of Chicago. > > “In some jurisdictions, it can be an assault, or someone telling you that your spouse has committed adultery, or the confession of adultery by your spouse. It’s mostly cases where men have killed women, and juries tend to think it is reasonable for men to lose it when they hear about adultery. There is some academic criticism that it’s based on a narrow macho conception of protecting your sexual property, but the jury > verdicts aren’t changing,” he said. So yes, there **is** evidence that our society still largely accepts a legal system where a man’s killing a cheating wife or girlfriend isn’t treated as a serious crime. Of course, this is nowhere near as bad as a society’s largely accepting a legal system where a cheating wife or girlfriend is executed, but it certainly should wipe that holier-than-thou smirk off our faces. A prosperous, educated, developed society that still widely considers that “it is reasonable for men to lose it when they hear about adultery”, to the extent of letting wife-murderers get off with a slap on the wrist, has got a ways to go before it’s entitled to brag about its full commitment to gender equality and sexual autonomy for women. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522/40 "2004-10-18T23:02:02Z")
Nah, the suggestions above won’t work. To make it really equal, drop the gang bang/voyeur requirement in Sharia law to convict the man for adultery or rape. Then sentence to death all those men who are guilty. That will change society very quickly. and Sharia law works as intended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-more-women-sentenced-to-stoning-in-nigeria/269522.md?page=3)