# Two people claim to be guilty of the same murder. They can't both be guilty, then what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063 "2019-02-06T14:26:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/41 "2019-02-10T01:56:24Z")
Well, in Canada, #3 wouldn’t happen. We don’t have felony murder - was struck down as unconstitutional, contrary to our equivalent of due process. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/42 "2019-02-10T02:28:52Z")
Perhaps both of them would be convicted for the same crime: > **[Two Murder Convictions for One Fatal Shot](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/13/two-murder-convictions-for-one-fatal-shot)** > > In dozens of criminal trials, prosecutors have put the same gun in the hands of more than one defendant. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/43 "2019-02-10T11:27:33Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > Generally police like to withhold certain details about the crime to filter out false confessions. If one person says “I killed her in her house”, and the other one says “I stabbed her six times in the kitchen with a Mozzbi brand serrated steak knife that I threw out as I was leaving the house”, then you know which one did it. Except when they’ve instead stated “We known that you stabbed her six times in the kitchen with a Mozzbi brand serrated steak knife and then threw it out as you were leaving the house. So, why don’t you just admit to it, and we’ll be done with it.” And then mention this precise knowledge of the circumstances of the crime as an evidence of guilt, as basically happened many times to people falsely convicted. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/44 "2019-02-11T15:13:48Z")
You watch too many TV crime dramas. All police interrogations are watch through a two way mirror and are videotaped. The police do not go into details like your example. Of course, people can later claim they did, and try to get out of prison by doing so. Does not work… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/45 "2019-02-11T15:55:58Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Perhaps both of them would be convicted for the same crime: > > [https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/13/two-murder-convictions-for-one-fatal-shot](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/13/two-murder-convictions-for-one-fatal-shot) This is likely the case I was refeeeing to earlier in this thread. But the OP has been answered long ago. What happens in these cases is whatever the prosecutors decide they can get away with. They can randomly choose one to prosecute, or try to nail both of the suspects. There’s no blanket principle that dictates what will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/46 "2019-02-11T17:52:06Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > You watch too many TV crime dramas. All police interrogations are watch through a two way mirror and are videotaped. The police do not go into details like your example. “All” is a pretty sweeping generalization here, when there are thousands of police departments just in the U.S., covered by fifty different state laws/constitutions/judicial decisions. I’m not aware of any jurisdiction that absolutely requires interrogations to be taped. Some departments do, to their credit, have policies that interrogations are videotaped, but certainly not all. And, even where there is tape, I think there’s been enough experience with police bodycams for us to understand the limits of recordings that are under the control of the police. So I don’t think ‘all’ is very accurate here. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/47 "2019-02-12T20:05:59Z")
FWIW, in 6 years as a prosecutor and now 17+ as a magistrate, I’ve never seen, read or heard of a case like the OP’s. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, but it would be vanishingly rare. > [@Acsenray](#): > > …And, yes, statements made under oath in court can be used as evidence in other cases… In the U.S., they don’t even have to be under oath. Statements made to anyone by a criminal defendant are not hearsay and may typically be introduced in court as statements by a party opponent. See Fed.Evid.R. 801(d)(2) and its state equivalents: [https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule\_801](https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_801) > [@Quercus](#): > > “All” is a pretty sweeping generalization here, when there are thousands of police departments just in the U.S., covered by fifty different state laws/constitutions/judicial decisions. I’m not aware of any jurisdiction that absolutely requires interrogations to be taped… It’s more common than you might think (and then-State Sen. Barack Obama was instrumental in getting the law passed in Illinois): “To date, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Texas, Vermont, Wisconsin, and the District of Columbia have enacted legislation regarding the recording of custodial interrogations. State supreme courts have taken action in Alaska, Indiana, Iowa, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, and New Jersey. Approximately 1000 jurisdictions have voluntarily implemented recording policies.” From here: [False Confessions - Innocence Project](https://www.innocenceproject.org/false-confessions-recording-interrogations/) ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/48 "2019-02-12T21:00:31Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > In Texas, I believe this is known as the law of parties. I have a childhood friend who is spending life in Texas prison for being the getaway driver. He agreed to participate in the liquor store robbery by driving the car. However, while inside, his buddy shot and killed the store worker. The guy I know never went in the store and never knew about the shooting until it had happened. Sucks to be him. Here it’s called ‘joint enterprise’ , and the Craig/Bentley case rested primarily on it. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/49 "2019-02-13T04:12:22Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > You watch too many TV crime dramas. All police interrogations are watch through a two way mirror and are videotaped. The police do not go into details like your example. > > Of course, people can later claim they did, and try to get out of prison by doing so. Does not work… Actually, that’s precisely what happens in Japan on occasion. Another technique is for the police to ask questions and then when the suspect gives an answer that doesn’t match the evidence, they will tell the suspect that no, you couldn’t have done it that way, and allow the person to make another guess. Japanese laws are less protective of suspects’ rights and are a good example of why such laws are necessary. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/50 "2019-02-13T04:43:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This is likely the case I was refeeeing to earlier in this thread. > > But the OP has been answered long ago. What happens in these cases is whatever the prosecutors decide they can get away with. They can randomly choose one to prosecute, or try to nail both of the suspects. There’s no blanket principle that dictates what will happen. But… assuming the two confessions/cases cannot be tied together as a joint enterprise or conspiracy, I’m going to guess that they will try the most likely case first. It’s kind of counter-productive to the case to have a defense attorney dredge up - “wait, you’ve charged another person for the same crime while claiming that they acted alone.” Or is the defence forbidden from introducing some other indictments, statements, confessions by other persons into a court case? Plus, if the second person is also convicted, the first one should have a case to appeal his conviction. Is there a presumption that the most recent court decision is the more correct(?) one? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/51 "2019-02-13T11:36:02Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > But… assuming the two confessions/cases cannot be tied together as a joint enterprise or conspiracy, I’m going to guess that they will try the most likely case first. It’s kind of counter-productive to the case to have a defense attorney dredge up - “wait, you’ve charged another person for the same crime while claiming that they acted alone.” Yes, that might harm the prosecution’s case, but it is up to the judge to decide whether it will kill it. > [@](#): > > Or is the defence forbidden from introducing some other indictments, statements, confessions by other persons into a court case? No, there’s no such prohibition. > [@](#): > > Plus, if the second person is also convicted, the first one should have a case to appeal his conviction. Yes, one or both might try to appeal, but generally appeals are restricted to errors of law. It’s not guaranteed that you can appeal based on the argument that “the result in that case makes it logically impossible for me to be guilty in this case.” It depends on the jurisprudence in the particular state’s law and whether the appeals courts decide to intervene. > [@](#): > > Is there a presumption that the most recent court decision is the more correct(?) one? No, there is no such presumption. Bottom line, it is entirely possible for both defendants to be convicted and sentenced and serve time regardless of the fact there is no actual way for them both to have actually done it. There’s no general rule that the result in two cases mist be logically compatible with each other. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/52 "2019-02-13T12:12:40Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > A common plot point in detective shows is that there is a murder, and for some reason 2 people each claim to be guilty of the murder. For whatever reason it’s impossible they were both involved, so at least one of them are lying. The detective works out which one, (or both) are lying and then the guilty party gets arrested for the murder. How would it work in the real world if there’s only one murder, 2 people claiming to be the perpetrator, cirumstances that clearly make their stories incompatible and no way to tell which one is lying? It’s not uncommon for multiple people to confess to the same murder. Some people be crazy. They just investigate to see who’s lying. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/53 "2019-02-13T15:19:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > … > > Yes, one or both might try to appeal, but generally appeals are restricted to errors of law. It’s not guaranteed that you can appeal based on the argument that “the result in that case makes it logically impossible for me to be guilty in this case.” It depends on the jurisprudence in the particular state’s law and whether the appeals courts decide to intervene. > > … It seems to me that is the very definition of an error in law. Another equal court has decided the facts are different. that’s often what gets appeals heard, is it not? If nothing else, it brings the reputation of the law into disrepute. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/54 "2019-02-13T15:27:05Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > It seems to me that is the very definition of an error in law. An error in fact is not an error in law. An error in law is an error in formulating or applying a legal rule. > [@](#): > > Another equal court has decided the facts are different. that’s often what gets appeals heard, is it not? No, this is not a common basis for appeal. Another equal court’s finding of fact may very well be different. But you don’t automatically get an appeal on that basis. And when going to an appeals court, they will rarely question the lower court’s finding of fact. They will generally only review error of law—that is, a statement of what the law is and how to apply it to facts. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/55 "2019-02-13T16:02:01Z")
Depends on the appellate jurisdiction. Criminal appeals in Canada aren’t limited to errors of law. An accused can appeal against conviction on the basis that it is not supportable on the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/56 "2019-02-13T16:26:20Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Depends on the appellate jurisdiction. Criminal appeals in Canada aren’t limited to errors of law. An accused can appeal against conviction on the basis that it is not supportable on the evidence. In U.S. courts, defendants frequently make such an appeal, but it’s one that they should generally expect to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Justy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7cd45c/32.png) [@Justy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justy5)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/57 "2019-02-13T20:35:06Z")
Put them both under anesthesia then tickle their feet until one of them tells the truth! This works every time. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063/58 "2019-02-15T15:34:53Z")
> [@Justy5](#): > > Put them both under anesthesia then tickle their feet until one of them tells the truth! This works every time. I hear that’s a common approach in Grand Fenwick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-people-claim-to-be-guilty-of-the-same-murder-they-cant-both-be-guilty-then-what/829063.md?page=2)