# Two planes disappear from radar over Russia **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 24, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360 "2004-08-24T23:54:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/1 "2004-08-24T23:54:46Z")
Almost simultaneously. One is confirmed to have crashed, the other is missing. [CNN Story](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/08/24/russia.planecrash/index.html) Both were Tupolevs. The total passenger count is 78. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/2 "2004-08-25T00:09:40Z")
I _just_ saw a ‘breaking news’ e-mail from CNN about this… " ☹ " indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/3 "2004-08-25T00:11:50Z")
Speculation at this time seems to be either terrorism, or fuel contamination. Both airplanes took off from Moscow within minutes of each other, and both crashed 4 minutes apart. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/4 "2004-08-25T00:14:06Z")
The flights are: Volga-Avia Tu-134, flight 1303 Moscow-Volgograd Sibir Tu-154, flight 1047 Moscow-Sochi ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/5 "2004-08-25T00:14:10Z")
When things like this happen I tend to reserve judgement automatically until the obviousness of terrorism is apparent. Others should do the same. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/6 "2004-08-25T00:15:08Z")
Speculation says terrorism…rational thought says monumental fuck-up. Like the mid-air collision on the Swiss-German border a couple of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/7 "2004-08-25T00:17:34Z")
The planes were several hundred kilometers apart. Midair collision is ruled out as such. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/8 "2004-08-25T00:20:18Z")
> [@Coldfire](#): > > The planes were several hundred kilometers apart. Midair collision is ruled out as such. So if on a head-on course, they could have collided within ten minutes, and a ATC cockup isn’t a possibility? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/9 "2004-08-25T00:20:22Z")
Tupolevs are notorious for falling out of the sky. Poor maintenance and pilot errors have been common. They’re just not very well-built aircraft. We used to refer to the Soviet official airline as “Aero-flop”. That aside, it’s tragic that more people have died. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/10 "2004-08-25T00:23:35Z")
Gorillaman, both planes left Moscow, but in different directions. There is no possibility of a midair. Chefguy, Tupolev’s aren’t as dangerous as they’re reputed to be. Although I’ll concede that poor maintenance and lax rules are a problem in Russia, post-communism. But I’m reserving judgment until I know more. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/11 "2004-08-25T00:24:51Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Tupolevs are notorious for falling out of the sky. Poor maintenance and pilot errors have been common. That said. I think we can rule out those factors considering the synchronicity of these events. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/12 "2004-08-25T00:40:21Z")
> [@Coldfire](#): > > Speculation at this time seems to be either terrorism, or fuel contamination. Both airplanes took off from Moscow within minutes of each other, and both crashed 4 minutes apart. ☹ Of course, fuel contamination might be a deliberate act. Certainly, I would ground a heck of a lot of Russian airliners Right Now if I were in charge of things. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/13 "2004-08-25T01:05:48Z")
Regardless of cause, it’s a tragedy. However, two crashes in such a short span, and both originating from the same airport, is cause for suspicion in today’s world. Simultaneous accidents would be tragic enough, delibrate harm is even more so. I hope it is not terrorism, but it would not surprise me if it was. My condlences to the families and friends of the deceased. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/14 "2004-08-25T01:12:34Z")
oh dear. ☹ Would it be silly to imagine that terrorists might have been more likely to target planes a bit larger than one carrying 34 passengers and 8 crew and one with 44 passengers and 8 crew? Hmm, I have no idea, myself. How very horrible. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/15 "2004-08-25T01:52:14Z")
How terrible… I’m curious about the fuel contamination possibility. How can contaminated fuel cause a plane to crash after 100 miles of flight? ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/16 "2004-08-25T02:03:25Z")
Jets have fuel filters installed to remove contaminants from the fuel before they reach the engine. However, if the fuel is REALLY contaminated the filters can become clogged. When they clog they automatically bypass the filter - so you get fuel to the engine, but contaminated fuel. When this happens you need to land NOW, because sooner or later you are going to flame out your engines. Fuel contamination is a VERY serious issue. From my Air Force days I recall not being able to refuel at certain airports in Africa because the fuel supply was not up to international standards. And whenever Air Force One refuels (other than at Andrews AFB), the fuel trucks used to refuel it are impounded until it completes the journey safely or the fuel supplied by the trucks has been burned with no ill effects. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/17 "2004-08-25T02:07:52Z")
[CNN reports](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/08/24/russia.planecrash/index.html) they’ve found the wreckage of the second plane. 😕 ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/18 "2004-08-25T02:11:59Z")
Advise an very ignorant Celyn, pls. So would flaming out the engines be the same as plane explode in mid-air? There seem to be claims that witnesses saw Plane number one explode prior to crashing. > [@](#): > > Witnesses say the aircraft exploded in the air before it crashed, the agency reports. (The “agency” being TASS) [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3596354.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3596354.stm) also > [@](#): > > … > > There are fears the two aircraft may have fallen victim to an attack by militants linked to a bloody uprising in the southern republic of Chechnya, which is due to elect a new president in a few days’ time. > … Hmm. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/19 "2004-08-25T02:21:11Z")
No a “flameout” is the flame in the engine going out. As in no more engines for you, and the plane is going to start descending. It’s [survivable](http://www.wadenelson.com/gimli.html) if you can find a place to land. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360/20 "2004-08-25T02:21:20Z")
Does a flame out look like an explosion from the ground? If terrorism, it would be Chechnyans. I wouldn’t like for European Muslims to begin operating, particularly in the US; we couldn’t use profiling. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-planes-disappear-from-radar-over-russia/261360.md?page=2)