# Two (possibly stupid) linguistics questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 12, 2023, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069 "2023-01-12T02:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/41 "2023-01-19T08:26:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, I’m not seeing how this one is even superficially related. That’s because the OP made a mistake - “fruit” in Hebrew is “_pri_”, or “_pree_”. One vowel. As for the P/F issue, in Hebrew, words cannot begin with an F (although loanwords can, of course). If a word is conjugated so that it begins with an F, the F is pronounced like a P. Thus, for instance, with the F-T-Ch root: “was opened” - נפתח - “_niftach_” vs. “opened” - פתח - “_patach_”; “opening” - פתח - “_petach_” vs. “key” - מפתח - “_mafte’ach_” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/42 "2023-01-19T08:35:21Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > _Shesh_ is six in both Hebrew and Persian. Coincidence. _Sette_ is seven in both Italian and Sakha (a Turkic language in Siberia). Coincidence. One coincidence I’ve always wondered about is between the word “regular” in English and the equivalent word in Hebrew, רגיל, “_ragil_”. The English word comes from the Latin “_regula_”, for “rule”, while the Hebrew word comes from “_regel_”, or “foot” - and yet, they mostly mean the same, and sound so similar! Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/43 "2023-01-19T09:54:14Z")
Coincidence does happen? ---
**Author:** ![Quondam\_Mechanic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quondam_mechanic/32/3404_2.png) [@Quondam\_Mechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quondam_Mechanic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/44 "2023-01-19T10:48:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > OK, I’m not seeing how this one is even superficially related. > > That’s because the OP made a mistake - “fruit” in Hebrew is “_pri_”, or “_pree_”. One vowel. > > As for the P/F issue, in Hebrew, words cannot begin with an F (although loanwords can, of course). If a word is conjugated so that it begins with an F, the F is pronounced like a P. Thus, for instance, with the F-T-Ch root: “was opened” - נפתח - “_niftach_” vs. “opened” - פתח - “_patach_”; “opening” - פתח - “_petach_” vs. “key” - מפתח - “_mafte’ach_” Ah. I knew forms of “_pri_” – for example, one of the most familiar blessings in Hebrew being the one for “the fruit of the vine,” “_pri hagofen_” – which is what got me thinking about the similarity with “fruit” in the first place. But for the sake of a clearer post, I went to Google translate to find the root form and the Hebrew spelling. They misled me, it appears. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/45 "2023-01-19T10:54:36Z")
[How many words in Hebrew?](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/the-israeli-academy-continuing-the-unprecedented-revival-of-the-hebrew-language-542822#:~:text=In%20Biblical%20Hebrew%2C%20there%20were,Hebrew%20has%20approximately%2033%2C000%20words.) - modern ~33,000, ancient ~7,000 [How many words in English?](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-44569277#:~:text=We%20considered%20dusting%20off%20the,to%20mention%2047%2C156%20obsolete%20words.) - 171,146 according to OED So, what are the chances of this being a coincidence with this bunch of words, when most regular words are composed of a finite range of human vocalised sounds describing a finite range of things, like the concept of consistent measurement, for one? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/46 "2023-01-19T14:47:19Z")
Not to mention that expanding the 7,000 words of ancient Hebrew into modern Hebrew when the language was revived in the late 19th Century probably involved quite a few borrowings from other languages, either unconsciously or deliberately. I don’t know for sure, but it wouldn’t surprise me that the revival of Hebrew from a dead to an actually used language makes it a bit of an outlier in some respects. Anyone with more linguistic knowledge than me care to weigh in on that? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/47 "2023-01-19T15:02:46Z")
Hebrew “p(ᵊ)ri” (root PRH) is classical,therefore presumably “borrowed” from Proto-Semitic, but intrestingly Gesenius says [https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1674140047731&a](https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1674140047731&a) > **[H6509 - pārâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (wlc)](https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h6509/wlc/wlc/0-1/)** > > H6509 - פָּרָה pârâh, paw-raw'; a primitive root; to bear fruit (literally or figuratively):—bear, bring forth (fruit), (be, cause to be, make) fruitful, grow, increase. ---
**Author:** ![Quondam\_Mechanic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quondam_mechanic/32/3404_2.png) [@Quondam\_Mechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quondam_Mechanic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/48 "2023-01-19T15:08:08Z")
The words I’m talking about here come from my limited knowledge of ancient Hebrew. You should also note that we’re talking about core vocabulary – something like 1,000 words. For cross-family resemblances, we’re looking at a handful of families, comparing the core vocabulary words that have the same or closely-related meanings. Even so, the first explanation of a resemblance is of course coincidence – but the question I posed in the OP (which has been answered here pretty well) is whether the resemblances I noted were suspected by knowledgeable people of being loan words borrowed in ancient times, or even cognates arising from a super-family. ---
**Author:** ![Quondam\_Mechanic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quondam_mechanic/32/3404_2.png) [@Quondam\_Mechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quondam_Mechanic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/49 "2023-01-19T15:09:47Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Hebrew “p(ᵊ)ri” (root PRH) is classical,therefore presumably “borrowed” from Proto-Semitic, but intrestingly Gesenius says > [https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1674140047731&a](https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1674140047731&a) > > [H6509 - pārâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (wlc)](https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h6509/wlc/wlc/0-1/) Recall the Biblical blessing: “Be fruitful (_p’ru_) and multiply and fill up the earth.” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/50 "2023-01-19T16:51:55Z")
To coin new Hebrew vocabulary, Ben-Yehudah drew upon Semitic roots found in other languages like Arabic and Aramaic, reasoning that these roots could as well have turned up in Hebrew. Similar to how the Turkish Language Academy reformed their language by replacing Arabic and Persian loanwords with words derived from roots in other Turkic languages. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/51 "2023-01-19T17:02:00Z")
There is a whole pursuit for fun of linguistic coincidences. [Linguistic coincidences and surprises | Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/groups/linguisticcoincidences) Some of them are really striking, like the regel/regulate one you mentioned. Or how about _mahina_ means ‘month’ in both Hawaiian and Urdu. When mahi-mahi fish first arrived in the market, it caught my attention because _mahi_ is the Persian word for fish. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069/52 "2023-01-19T18:40:19Z")
If it is true what Gesenius says about the root appearing (coincidentally? not?) in Sanskrit, Persian, Armenian, Gothic, Latin, German, Greek, etc., it would be interesting to know more. Keep in mind that lexicon was published 200 years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-possibly-stupid-linguistics-questions/978069.md?page=2)