# Two questions about addressing people in English **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560 "2010-08-26T17:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/41 "2010-08-27T10:44:25Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > > [@jayjay](#): > > > > Avoid “How you doin’?” That’s not a greeting, it’s a (mock) flirt. > > This does not quite capture the subtleties of the (typically New York) “how you doin’”. For example, if a guy enters a working-class bar in New York, he may greet the bartender with a slight nod and a monotonic “Aay, how you doin’”, to which the bartender will reply, “How you doin’”. This is usually accompanied by the New York Reverse Nod, in which you jut your chin one inch upward, then down. Under no circumstances may you smile doing it. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/42 "2010-08-27T15:26:00Z")
> [@Hedda\_Rosa](#): > > To me “how do you do” would be spoken at the same time as a handshake, upon first meeting, and the proper answer is either “how do you do” back or something like “Hi so nice to meet you”. It doesn’t imply a question about the other person’s wellbeing so replying “I’m well” would be a nonsequitor. Nonsense. It is obviously a question and is punctuated as such. Convention simply dictates responding by repeating the phrase because it is an empty salutation, no different than “Hi how are you?” in that regard. Responding to “How do you do?” with “Fine, and you?” might break with a dusty convention, but it is not a non-sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/43 "2010-08-27T15:47:31Z")
My usual response to “how do you do?” is to say _“LIKE THIS!”_ in a big, booming deejay voice and then start break dancing. In the parallel universe where I can muster a big, booming deejay voice. And break dance. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/44 "2010-08-27T15:49:21Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > Hello, I’m Swedish. > > 1. **How are you?** When a Swedish journalist is calling an American expert for an interview or something, the beginning most often goes something like this: “Hello, I’m the Swedish journalist.” “Oh hi, Swedish journalist, how are you?” “Oh, I’m fine. How are you?” > This is probably correct, but as a school kid I was taught that you must never answer the question “How do you do?” with how you are doing. - You will make a fool of yourself, they might even laugh at you. When they say How do you do, you must say, How do you do. > So, can we draw the conclusion that “How do you do?” means “Hi”, and “How are you?” means “How are you?” If an American gentleman for instance, shakes my hand and says “Hi, I’m Bob, how are you?” I’m supposed to say “Fine, thanks Bob, and how are you?” But if he says, “Hi, I’m Bob, how do you do?” I’m supposed to say “How do you do, Bob?” > > 2. **Dear Sirs**. If I’m writing a polite letter (or mail of course) to an American or British company whom I never dealt with before, is “Dear Sirs” the correct way to start? It seems to be when googling about, but it just feels weird, I don’t know why. – How would you natives address them in such a letter (where Hi or Hello etc won’t do)? 1.) “How do you do” would be rather formal and is not often used. You’re correct that for that phrase, you would not respond with “Fine” or anything similar. That’s used almost exclusively for introductions these days, not as a daily greeting. “How are you,” however, is more of a greeting, and can be answered with something like, “Fine, thanks, yourself?” Some people have taken to treating expressions like “How are you” and “What’s up” even more idiomatically, and responding back simply with another greeting, although some people may see that as rude. Generally speaking, someone who asks these questions in greeting don’t want or expect anything back other than “Fine,” “Good,” “Not much,” etc., with a complementary inquiry as to the first speaker’s own health or state. 2.) “Dear Sirs” \*could \*be a good way to start a business letter where you don’t know whom to address, or it could be \*very \*insulting (if the person you’re addressing turns out to be a woman, or even a man who doesn’t appreciate someone who would assume that the reader of the letter must be male). More common these days is “Dear Sir or Madam” or “To whom it may concern.” ---
**Author:** ![davey77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@davey77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davey77)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/45 "2010-08-27T15:58:18Z")
Cincinnati Reds broadcaster Marty Brenneman has a couple good responses to “How are you?” “How are you?” “Friend, every day I’m above ground is a GOOD day!” “How are you?” “Friend, if I were doin’ any better, I’d have to hire you to enjoy it with me.” ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/46 "2010-08-27T17:10:25Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > … > This is probably correct, but as a school kid I was taught that you must never answer the question “How do you do?” with how you are doing. - You will make a fool of yourself, they might even laugh at you. When they say How do you do, you must say, How do you do. > So, can we draw the conclusion that “How do you do?” means “Hi”, and “How are you?” means “How are you?” If an American gentleman for instance, shakes my hand and says “Hi, I’m Bob, how are you?” I’m supposed to say “Fine, thanks Bob, and how are you?” But if he says, “Hi, I’m Bob, how do you do?” I’m supposed to say “How do you do, Bob?”… This is a pet peeve of mine. I was born and raised in the Southern US by Northern parents. I learned from both Southerners and Northerners what you have been taught, **Wakinyan** , as follows: “How do you do” is not a question. It’s a greeting, like “Hello,” and a statement. It does NOT have a question mark and should not be uttered with a question-like inflection, as in “How do YOU do?” “How do you do” is used only when meeting someone for the first time. The only acceptable response would be “How do you do.” The greeting is NOT synonymous with “How are you?” which by itself is not a greeting. You might say “Hello. How are you?” But not just “how are you?” If you answer “How do you do” with “How do you do,” people will believe you have had excellent English instruction. And people certainly do still say “How do you do” when introduced. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/47 "2010-08-27T17:19:11Z")
And, of course, there’s the more informal “How’s it hangin’?” (To which the proper response is “Long and loose, full of juice, big enough to \*\*\*\* a moose”, naturally.) ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/48 "2010-08-27T17:48:16Z")
It’s not so much a matter of ‘how do you do?’ being antiquated or out of common usage - its still fairly common. The difference is that ‘how do you do?’ is generally a phrase used only when meeting someone for the first time. ‘Mary, I’d like you to meet John. John, this is Mary.’ Mary’s response (often accompanied by an extended hand), would be ‘Hello, John, how do you do?’ John’s response would then be something along the lines of ‘Hello, Mary, pleased to meet you.’ If you already know the person, then it is more common to use the phrase ‘Hi, how are you doing?’ as the polite initiation to conversation. And, as has already been mentioned, the correct response would ‘Fine, how are you?’ (and not an actual account of your present state of being). ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/49 "2010-08-27T17:49:42Z")
1. In the Disney feature Song of the South (1946), there is a song titled “How Do You Do,” with this chorus: How do you do? Fine. How are you? How you come on? Pretty good sure as you’re born. The last two lines are regionalisms, but the first two were standard American English at the time. As others have noted, “how do you do” has since fallen out of common use in the United States. 1. In the past, the standard salutation in addressing a company was “Gentlemen,” although “Dear Sirs” or “Dear Sir or Madam” could also be used. Note the distinction: “Gentlemen” and “Dear Sirs” are addressed to the company as a whole, while “Dear Sir” or “Dear Sir or Madam” is addressed to the individual who will receive and respond to your missive. If you want a group salutation today, you could probably still use “Gentlemen,” but you’re safer with “Ladies and Gentlemen,” which is what I use. “Dear Sirs” has fallen by the wayside. ---
**Author:** ![UncaStuart](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncastuart/32/404_2.png) [@UncaStuart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaStuart)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/50 "2010-08-27T17:52:27Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > “How do you do” is not a question. It’s a greeting, like “Hello,” and a statement. It does NOT have a question mark and should not be uttered with a question-like inflection, as in “How do YOU do?” > > “How do you do” is used only when meeting someone for the first time. > > The only acceptable response would be “How do you do.” > > The greeting is NOT synonymous with “How are you?” which by itself is not a greeting. You might say “Hello. How are you?” But not just “how are you?” > If you answer “How do you do” with “How do you do,” people will believe you have had excellent English instruction. And people certainly do still say “How do you do” when introduced. Exactly. I hear it used only on first introductions. One would never greet a friend or colleague with “How do you do,” but if your friend or colleague were introducing you to a friend of theirs, you would use “How do you do” on that new person. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/51 "2010-08-27T17:53:36Z")
The best response to “How do you do” is “Howdy Pardner!” with a big slap on the back, preferably while you cram your partly drunk beer into their hand as a welcoming present. Then yell to your ‘special lady’ - “bring this nice boy some grub, woman!” as you push him toward a comfy chair/barrel with your hand that’s still on his back. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/52 "2010-08-27T19:17:48Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > 1. “Dear Sirs” or “Dear Sir or Madam” is acceptable for an impersonal letter. Sometimes I write “Dear Sirs or Mesdames”. Wrong? > [@Zsofia](#): > > I haven’t heard “How do you do?” in ages. You don’t like to listen to Louis Armstrong? > [@](#): > > The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky > Are also on the faces of people going by > I see friends shaking hands saying “how do you do?” > They’re really saying I love you. I’ve a friend who answers “How ya doin?” with “Not as good as you.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/53 "2010-08-27T20:46:58Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > > [@Wilbo523](#): > > > > 1. “Dear Sirs” or “Dear Sir or Madam” is acceptable for an impersonal letter. > > Sometimes I write “Dear Sirs or Mesdames”. Wrong? It might come off as idiosyncratic, which is not always ideal in a business situation. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/54 "2010-08-27T21:20:10Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Possible answers to “How are you?”: > – How are you? > – I’m fine. > – Never better. > – Can’t complain. > – Could be worse. > – Do you want the whole story, or just “I’m fine, how are you?”? > > Any of the above could be used in response to “How do you do?”, since it means exactly the same thing. > [@Dahnlor](#): > > > [@Giles](#): > > > > Possible answers to “How are you?”: > > – How are you? > > – I’m fine. > > – Never better. > > – Can’t complain. > > – Could be worse. > > – Do you want the whole story, or just “I’m fine, how are you?”? > > > > Any of the above could be used in response to “How do you do?”, since it means exactly the same thing. > > You left out [Wassaap?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W16qzZ7J5YQ) If you’re in known company there are also: –Same old same old, you? –Ah you know, you? > [@Smeghead](#): > > > [@Giles](#): > > > > Possible answers to “How are you?”: > > – How are you? > > – I’m fine. > > – Never better. > > – Can’t complain. > > – Could be worse. > > – Do you want the whole story, or just “I’m fine, how are you?”? > > Balls is still swingin’ A vairant around here, or at least with my friends is: Still hangin and swangin, you? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/55 "2010-08-27T23:08:17Z")
Let’s not forget the classic “How are ya?” response: _Doin’ fine, can’t complain_. ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/56 "2010-08-28T10:14:10Z")
Having worked with colleagues on every continent (except Antarctica - damned reclusive Antartician scientists) over the years in a firm that uses American English as its standard language, I’ve learned to be very forgiving with phrasing for non-native speakers. I was, in fact, once reamed out by a boss after using the phrase “foreign counterparts” in a meeting - that was considered demeaning (I take issue with this - I am a foreigner to them, as well, and everyone in the room was American). In response to “How do you do?” I would usually respond with “Awesome, how are things in your part of the world.” Most non-native speakers have significant exposure to American media (Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure, for example), and will view this as friendly and refreshingly informal. My FOREIGN counterparts would frequently call/IM me to ask about American English usage (helps that I used to teach ESL); I even got one into reading Mark Twain. I hope he’s not over there in Paris talking about how “a French man don’t talk like a man…” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/57 "2010-08-29T04:59:02Z")
The only time I’ve heard of “How do you do?” used as a non-question is when it elicits no response at all. The most common use I’ve seen is in formal introductions, where each person uses it after they are introduced–not in response to each other. “This is Mr. Jones, head of marketing for Company X.” “How do you do?” “And this is Ms. Smith, head of sales for Company Y.” “How do you do?” The only other time I’ve seen it is as response to the first person introducing themselves to a second person. The second person does not pause for an answer and introduces themselves. The first person may respond with “How do you do?” but only if they have nothing else to say. “Hello. I’m George.” “How do you do? I’m Sarah.” “How do you do, Sarah? So what brings you to my office?” To actually respond with “How do you do?” with “How do you do?” seems really odd. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/58 "2010-08-29T06:07:59Z")
Many years ago a friend took me to meet his good friends in a far away city called New York, a couple living together. We arrived, unplanned, at their apartment during Christmas season. Only he was home, turns out she was uptown at a vet with their cat, and had just gotten word that the cat had swallowed an ornament, and that the surgery would cost more then they could hope to scrape together in a month of Christmases. Since we arrived in my car, he asked if we could all drive up there to get her and the cat instead of taking a cab. So we did. She got in the car bawling her eyes out with the condemned cat in a container of some sort, but since she didn’t know me, it was up to our mutual friend to make introductions. Which brings us back to the OP: The “How are you”, “Fine, how are you”, “nice to meet you”, “you too” are so reflexive and meaningless and scripted that we did that ritual even in this awful circumstance for it. That was decades ago, and I still marvel at seeing her say she was fine, when she so clearly wasn’t, and we all knew why. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/59 "2010-08-29T06:40:04Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > > [@Wilbo523](#): > > > > 1. “Dear Sirs” or “Dear Sir or Madam” is acceptable for an impersonal letter. > > Sometimes I write “Dear Sirs or Mesdames”. Wrong? “Ladies and Gentlemen:” might be better. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560/60 "2010-08-30T12:37:57Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > Central USAnian here… > > My understanding of “how do you do” follows yours: when greeted with “how do you do”, the response is “how do you do”\*. It is essentially a formal way to say hello. I still hear it, but it’s not nearly as common as it used to be. I would find it slightly odd if someone replied “fine, how are you” to “how do you do”, but it wouldn’t be a major problem (particularly for a non-native speaker). > > “How are you” is a slightly different formality. It usually follows a greeting (“Hi, how are you”), but can sometimes be used in place of “how do you do”. The proper response to “how are you” is some variant of “fine, thanks, and you?”. > > “Dear Sirs” is still appropriate as a generic greeting for a business letter, or you can say “Dear Sir or Madam”. Sometimes I use “Dear Gentlepersons”, but that’s because I’m like that. It’s certainly not standard. > \*Sometimes abbreviated to “how-do” in my neck of the woods, hence “howdy”. > On preview: Really? Has “how do you do” fallen that far out of use in other areas? Because while I don’t hear it for every greeting these days, it’s still the standard for a first meeting or introduction. Just to give a British input,everything you’ve said is much the same over here apart from gentlefolk and howdy. How do you do is becoming quite uncommon this side of the pond and is as you’ve said merely a formal hello; not a formal enquiry. Most ordinary people would not ridicule a person for whom English is a second language if they made a minor mistake, or even for that matter a major mistake. We can’t point any fingers as most of us are mono lingual. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-addressing-people-in-english/551560.md?page=4)